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  • Amazing rendition of Somewhere Over The Rainbow variations by Tommy Emmanuel

    Posted by Jung Roe on 17/08/2023 at 07:09

    Watching Tommy Emmanuel unleash his amazing guitar facility on Somewhere Over The Rainbow, I can’t help but realize he is doing a variation on a theme throughout, but each variation is different and just gets more and more brilliant. This is not unlike Bach’s Goldberg Variation (one of the greatest masterpieces in music), in Bach’s case he uses mathematical symmetry and relationship of the same musical theme in 30 different variations, each different but the same. Beethoven also did the Diabelli Variations in the same vein. Geniuses think musically alike I guess! Just something I noticed while listening to Tommy’s amazing variations on Somewhere Over the Rainbow. Absolutely beautiful.

    https://youtu.be/0cHeNscKZN0

    Jung Roe replied 1 year, 2 months ago 5 Members · 25 Replies
  • 25 Replies
  • Jürgen

    Member
    17/08/2023 at 14:24

    Hi Jung,

    very nice to hear from you again. A wonderful guitar rendition of this timeless piece of music and a gifted guitarist indeed. I have never heard of him before. Thank you for sharing.

    Maybe not quite appropriate to the topic, but some time ago when I was looking for music played on the Theremin I found this cover version of „Somewhere over the rainbow“. The Theremin always exudes something mysterious and spherical. It actually goes very well with the song. An enchanting dance of frequencies.

    https://youtu.be/K6KbEnGnymk

    • Jung Roe

      Member
      17/08/2023 at 15:18

      Hi Jurgen, hope you are keeping well! Seeing that Theremin, I envision walking into a high school physics class, and the teacher has this strange contraption setup to show you how science can create music. The Theremin really captures Somewhere Over The Rainbow nicely evoking some mysterious moods. The first time I experienced the Theremin, or a version of it, without even knowing it was the Beach Boys Good Vibrations. Brian Wilson was pioneering all kinds of new and unique effects in music way back then. Thanks for sharing that video.

    • Jürgen

      Member
      19/08/2023 at 08:51

      Hi Jung,

      I wish our physics teacher had introduced us to such exciting things as the Theremin. Instead, we learned about magnetic fields, coils and Ohm’s law in the 7th school year and calculated resistances. And with every calculation of the resistance, my resistance to physics increased until the induction voltage in my brain became so large that it resulted in my personal big bang and physics drifted permanently out of my universe. A real pity.

      PS: I’ve heard good vibrations many times, but never consciously noticed what instrument creates this slightly extraterrestrial sound in the background. I always found that sound funny and fitting to the song and never thought about what I was hearing.

      https://youtu.be/mdt0SOqPJcg

    • David Herrick

      Member
      19/08/2023 at 15:25

      As a physics teacher myself I sympathize with you, Juergen. Here in the U.S. a two-semester introductory physics sequence in college typically devotes 12 or 13 weeks to electricity and magnetism, but only about a week to sound in general, with scarcely any mention of music at all.

      I really believe we’d generate a lot more life-long physics fans if we concentrated more on the topics that capture people’s imagination. Obviously physics and engineering majors need to know more about certain things, but there’s already a separate version of the course for them that is more mathematically rigorous.

    • Jung Roe

      Member
      19/08/2023 at 19:59

      Good point David! Have you seen the movie “Dead Poet’s Society” about a Poetry school teacher. When school budget is slashed all the fine arts like poetry and music are cut in the curriculum in favour of math and sciences. He makes the case to the school board, what is the point of teaching kids to learn to read, write, and count when there is nothing worth reading and writing about. It’s the imagination that drives the mathematics and sciences giving it meaning.

    • David Herrick

      Member
      20/08/2023 at 03:15

      I haven’t seen that movie, Jung, but you’re not the first person to suggest that I should!

  • Jürgen

    Member
    17/08/2023 at 15:15

    Speaking of mathematical symmetry and music, I’ve seen some interesting documentaries dealing with the relationship between mathematics and music. Unfortunately all in German and not very helpful here. But perhaps an interesting aspect of these documentaries: the golden ratio or golden section. The golden ratio plays an interesting role not only in art, architecture or photography (images designed according to this principle appear more interesting to the viewer; the golden ratio describes a specific division ratio of a distance or other size, in which the ratio of the whole to its larger part corresponds to the ratio of the larger to the smaller part), but also in music.

    With a little imagination and scientific inaccuracy, this aspect ratio can also be applied to the human body. But the golden ratio can also be applied to music. The idea that there is such a universal code in nature and perhaps throughout the universe is tantalizing and was particularly popular in the 19th century. It can’t be scientifically proven, as far as I’ve understood. Leonardo da Vinci and Albrecht Dürer believed in a geometric-mathematical harmony in portraits and in the depiction of people. Michealangelo, on the other hand, rejected this idea: man cannot be pressed into a fixed measure. It seems to be the same in music. Some believe music follows a universal code that permeates the entire universe, others dismiss this as imprecise and not very scientific. Myth or mathematics?

    Since I didn’t find any English-language documentation on this topic that I liked, I’ll try to add a German-language documentation. Just a quick overview. However, English subtitles can be set and selected. sorry for that. I hope you like it anyway: “How much mathematics is there in music?”

    https://youtu.be/lkdaXrJOR1c

    • David Herrick

      Member
      18/08/2023 at 16:55

      Thanks for the video, Juergen! The golden ratio is really cool. Wikipedia has a good article on the various ways of defining it, and the many fields in which it can be applied.

      I discovered the golden ratio by accident in college when I was working out a physics problem in which I had to take the reciprocal of 1.618. When I plugged that into the calculator, I noticed that the result was almost precisely 0.618. It turns out that’s another definition of the golden ratio: the number that is exactly one more than its own reciprocal.

      I don’t really see a fundamental application of the golden ratio to music, though. I’m thinking of harmonies, and how they’re related to the frequency ratios of the notes. Pleasing harmonies have simple ratios: an octave is 2 to 1, a fifth is 3 to 2, a fourth is 4 to 3, etc. But the golden ratio is irrational, meaning it can’t be written as a ratio of two integers, and such an interval doesn’t sound particularly special. (The golden ratio is, however, pretty close to 1.625, or 13 to 8, which is a minor sixth.) I’ll need to research that more.

    • Jürgen

      Member
      19/08/2023 at 09:09

      Hi David, thanks for your comments on the golden ratio. Yes, maybe the golden ratio plays a rather minor role in music and when it does appear it’s maybe more accidental than intentional. But I’m not a musician enough to be able to judge that. I became aware of the golden ratio because I like to take pictures. In photography, the golden section describes the geometric image design. For example, it is about the placement of the main motif and the surface ratio of foreground and background. Here, the golden section can serve as an inspiration. If you take pictures regularly, you automatically divide up the area in this way. You just have the feeling that a picture looks well or looks interesting. Maybe it’s similar in music: a composer simply “feels” when a piece sounds good. A more intuitive affair and less mathematics. Or mathematics as an intuitive feeling? Which came first: the hen or the egg? 😀

    • Jung Roe

      Member
      19/08/2023 at 19:49

      Hi Jurgen

      Yeah it appears perhaps the Golden Ratio appears in music and other disciplines less intentionally and more as a result of some kind of law of efficiency and beauty or something like that. Even in architecture over the ages the Golden Ratio appear. It’s mentioned in famous structures starting with the Pyramids of Giza, Greek Temples of Parthenon and Apollo, and on and on throughout the ages.

    • Chris Weber

      Member
      19/08/2023 at 18:41

      Jürgen,

      I subscribe to a free service from Bookbub.com that vets and recommends cheap ebooks on subjects you specify.

      Yesterday it recommended the book below on the golden ratio.

      Seeing that yesterday was the first time I’d heard of the golden ratio. But then I usually guess at answers instead of doing the math…


    • Jürgen

      Member
      20/08/2023 at 05:45

      Well Chris, I’m not an expert on the golden ratio, but thanks for asking me. I don’t know the book you mentioned or its author. I looked into the book once and it seems to me that it is written in an interesting way and that it gives an introduction to this topic. There are also descriptive pictures and graphics available, which I always like. As I understand it, this book focuses on the golden ratio in art, sculpture and architecture. And also in nature. I can’t judge whether the subject of music is particularly discussed here. The book is available as an e-book (kindle) for $1.95 from am…n. I don’t think you can go wrong at that price. If you buy it and read it, please let me know how you like it. I also might be interested in that.

  • Dave Johnston

    Member
    17/08/2023 at 18:45

    Listening to the Theremin in Somewhere over the Rainbow it somehow reminded me of Jeff Beck’s last recording with Clapton, Moon River. Jeff’s guitar work before the vocals start it’s so amazing. The video is also mildly entertaining. I love JS Bach and have several different Bach Compete Organ cycles (Alain, Chapius, Rogg and several others). I love everything Bach has ever done. Like Mozart and Beethoven for me he is at the top of the list.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DWqyYW8tOg

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  Dave Johnston.
    • Jürgen

      Member
      19/08/2023 at 09:05

      Thanks Dave for posting the videoclip „Moon River“. A very nice song. You’re right: The guitar sound is really reminiscent of the theremin. I enjoyed the artistic design of the video very much. I like animated music videos like this. The mood of certain pieces of music can thus be reproduced well. All the better that Mona & Lisa’s new video clip „Janitor Joe“ is also created in such an animated style. It would have been the icing on the cake if the two had also appeared artistically stylized in the video. But also such a very imaginative music video. It’s very nice that Mona and Lisa vary their artistic style and develop an enormous diversity over the many videos they produced.

    • Chris Weber

      Member
      19/08/2023 at 19:48

      I don’t think it’s by accident that Beck’s playing sounds like a Theremin.

      When Beck gave up using a pick years ago, and always had the whammy bar in his hand, he had such incredible control of pitch. The whammy bar never leaves his hand. His pitch control was so much better than anybody else that I know of.

      A Theremin is very sensitive to pitch changes as well. It seems hard to control.

  • Dave Johnston

    Member
    17/08/2023 at 19:03

    Jurgen … A while back I was on the Board of the Maryland Classic Youth Orchestra. The relationship between music and math was always something promoted. The kids in the top tier ochestra (there were 3 then) all went to top notch schools partly because of how music and math evolved their minds. Thx for sharing that video

  • Jung Roe

    Member
    18/08/2023 at 04:25

    Jurgen, Dave, I love this discussion. That is a great video explanation of the golden number/ratio that appears in the universe in all different guises in plants, music, structures, chemistry, physics etc…Thanks for sharing that Jurgen. I think what makes Bach great is how he expresses this order found in the universe revealing it’s beauty. Albert Einstein in his study of mathematics and the physical universe finds that beauty in the music of Mozart and Bach and claims to have found inspiration for his mathematical formulas from playing and listening to the music of Mozart and Bach.

    I came across this short video that highlights the wizardry in Bach’s music and how he uses mathematics and symmetry to express amazing beauty. It get’s into the musical voices that are unison copies of each other where they play in parallel and are separated in intervals or are mirrored with the notes inverted. It also gets into how Bach takes a strict structured musical form and weaves it together with a free musical voice that together express a kind of heavenly realm and earthly realm co-existing in his music. The speaker really articulates how mathematics and the beauty of order found in the universe is used by Bach in his music better than I ever can in this video. Really intriguing. I hope you like it.

    Dave Beck and Eric Clapton version of Moon River is enchanting Dave. Really easy going music I love. Thanks for posting it.

    https://youtu.be/pMJ1B5bHp6Q

  • Jung Roe

    Member
    18/08/2023 at 04:53

    Here is a beautiful rendition of the Goldberg Variation on the guitar. The guitarist really captures the beauty of this piece effectively. I’ve listened to other guitar versions, but I think this is the best, so expressive and precise. He plays it in such a way he makes you feel every single note. He holds the note like an exclamation.

    https://youtu.be/2FNZSeEdGtQ

  • Chris Weber

    Member
    19/08/2023 at 19:13

    Jung,

    Thanks for posting that version of Tommy playing Over the Rainbow. Covers can be amazing, but covering a standard, which by definition has been covered a lot, and still having something amazing to say, is special.

    I’ve only watched it once, so far, but a couple things jumped out at me.

    You’re right, variations on a theme. Just coming up with the arrangement was a major feat in itself.

    And the second thing I’m still thinking about was near the end.

    He’s holding a barre chord with his left hand, then plays harmonics with the finger picks and his index finger with his right hand.

    And the way harmonics sound, it kind of gives you an ethereal sound, that’s appropriate to the song, like Glinda is going to touch down any moment.

    Tommy gets his money’s worth out of his guitar.

    • Jung Roe

      Member
      19/08/2023 at 19:32

      Hi Chris

      I like the way you put it, Tommy does indeed get his money’s worth out of the guitar. He squeezes every last precious drop of juice out of that guitar and then some. Talent is amazing.

      Yeah taking a classic like Somewhere Over The Rainbow and adding one’s own creativity to make something remarkable is very special.

      In the 90s Israel Kamikawiwo gained international fame and recognition for putting his own smile and passion into his cover of “Somewhere Over The Rainbow/It’s a Wonderful World” medley with his ukelele. I posted this in the forum before, but here is another version video.

      https://youtu.be/R0xoMhCT-7A

  • Chris Weber

    Member
    19/08/2023 at 20:20

    The discussion of the relationship between music and math makes me think of different types of child prodigies.

    Music and math are 2 kinds of prodigies.

  • Jung Roe

    Member
    19/08/2023 at 21:16

    I just had to share this:

    “Einstein once said that while Beethoven created his music, Mozart’s ”was so pure that it seemed to have been ever-present in the universe, waiting to be discovered by the master.” Einstein believed much the same of physics, that beyond observations and theory lay the music of the spheres – which, he wrote, revealed a ”pre-established harmony” exhibiting stunning symmetries. The laws of nature, such as those of relativity theory, were waiting to be plucked out of the cosmos by someone with a sympathetic ear. …

    From 1902 to 1909, Einstein was working six days a week at a Swiss patent office and doing physics research – his ”mischief” – in his spare time. But he was also nourished by music, particularly Mozart. It was at the core of his creative life.

    And just as Mozart’s antics shocked his contemporaries, Einstein pursued a notably Bohemian life in his youth. His studied indifference to dress and mane of dark hair, along with his love of music and philosophy, made him seem more poet than scientist. …

    In his struggles with extremely complicated mathematics that led to the general theory of relativity of 1915, Einstein often turned for inspiration to the simple beauty of Mozart’s music.

    ”Whenever he felt that he had come to the end of the road or into a difficult situation in his work, he would take refuge in music,” recalled his older son, Hans Albert. ”That would usually resolve all his difficulties.”

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2006/jan/genius-finds-inspiration-music-another

    • Chris Weber

      Member
      20/08/2023 at 05:29

      Speaking of variations on a theme. I see a couple guys play Over the Rainbow, and of course YT wants to show me more.

      Yes, those dates in the title mean it’s 4 versions of OTR. It’s not that he played it differently over the years, he played it different every single time. I saw a good piece on YT the other day with Andre Previn and Oscar Peterson. Oscar told a story about how if you plan out your improvisations in advance, that it’s not really honest. Lol.

      https://youtu.be/1SuIRZKWOzM

    • Jürgen

      Member
      20/08/2023 at 06:11

      A very nice jazz adaptation of the song, Chris. I like that. I found another nice guitar/vocals cover version of the song. I think there are as many cover versions of this song as there are grains of sand by the sea (including many well-known musicians).

      https://youtu.be/2rd8VktT8xY

  • Jung Roe

    Member
    20/08/2023 at 08:39

    Chris that improvised piano rendition of Somewhere Over the Rainbow by Art Tatum was really enjoyable. Those piano flourishes really sounded great.

    Jurgen, Eva Cassidy really provides a heart felt rendition of Somewhere Over the Rainbow with her guitar. There is a lot of feeling there.

    Thanks guys!

    There is something quite magical with this song. For me it evokes a feeling of something beautiful and special beyond our reach in this world, like the end of a rainbow.

    Back in 2015 I was dealing with a lot of stress with my mom’s deteriorating condition in the care home and stress of work and many other things. I needed to get away for a bit, and I found this cheap Canadian Rocky Mountain week long guided bus tour, meals and lodging included, no thinking, just bring yourself along kind of get away seemed perfection. The tour guide played this song rendition by Aselin Debison on the bus often, and remember heading up into the mountains listening to this, took me to a beautiful imaginative place in my mind in the clouds, made me forget everything and feel how beautiful the world can be. This is a cover by Canadian artist Aselin Debison of Israel Kamikawiso’s rendition of Somewhere Over The Rainbow/It’s a Wonderful World I posted earlier. It’s another beautiful variation on the song

    https://youtu.be/01iHLXtrO0A

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