60's Sound-Alike Songs

[Jacki Hopper]

Now that you mention it, a guitar part in Tracy Chapman’s Fast Song is very similar /copied from a John Mellencamp song Jack and Diane where I hear the same /quite similar guitar part and thought of  who stole from who?!… There’s probably more songs in the 70’s – present time in all genres where this is /has happened and a year or two ago there was a case about a Marvin Gaye’s song in question or someone…. An interesting topic to discuss…. That’s my 2 cents worth for now.

[Jung Roe]

I can’t think of too many off the top of my head from the 60’s.  One that does come to mind is the beginnings of the Beach Boys song Fun, Fun, Fun which sounds heavily influenced by Chuck Berry Johnny B Goode too.  There are a lot of songs that do sound similar, but at what point is something outright plagiarism versus something that is just unoriginal influenced heavily by similar sounds and rhythms from other songs and bands at the time.

But there seems to be a lot of plagiarism going on in music today.

I saw on the news not too long ago of Katy Perry losing a court case for plagiarism and being ordered to pay millions. There seems to be a lot of it going on in modern pop music today with either accusations or lawsuits for plagiarism filed.  Some examples are Miley Cyrus, Lil Nas X, Lady Gaga, Carrie Underwood, Mark Ronson and Bruno Marks, Ed Sheeran, Justin Bieber, Del Rey, Taylor Swift, Sam Smith, Robin Thicke…etc list goes on.
Some of Ariana Grande and Drakes music are at the center of controversy for sounding very similar to other songs etc .

 

[Jung Roe]

Here are a couple I just came across while searching on Google:

“Led Zeppelin claiming credit for “Dazed and Confused,” a folk-rock song by the American singer-songwriter Jake Holmes two years before Led Zeppelin”

“Led Zeppelin found itself with more litigation when Spirit bassist Mark Andes filed a suit against “Stairway to Heaven.” The case went to trial in 2016, but a jury found that the similarities were not copyright infringement. The verdict was appealed in March 2017.  Led Zeppelin’s “Stairway to Heaven” was said to be a plagiarized version of the band Spirit’s song “Taurus.”

I will have to listen to Taurus later and compare it to Stair Way to Heaven myself.

 

[Howard]

Hi Jung. Apparently, this isn’t over. According to the appeals court decision, the 2016 trial judge erred in failing to instruct jurors that the trustee could prevail if Wolfe had created a “sufficiently original combination” of “otherwise unprotectable music elements,” and also in instructing jurors about the copyrighting of music elements in the public domain; the case is set to return to the District Court.

Another decision against Page could have a lot of composers worried.

For mine, one of the biggest copyright infringement injustices of recent years was against Richard Ashcroft. Ashcroft’s song famously sampled an orchestral cover of the Rolling Stones’ ‘The Last Time,’ and a lawsuit from former Stones manager Allen Klein shortly after its release forced him to hand over 100 percent of the royalties from ‘Bitter Sweet Symphony’ to Mick Jagger and Keith Richards. Ashcroft quipped at the time that it was “the best song Jagger and Richards have written in twenty years.” He then suffered from a nervous breakdown and the group eventually broke up.

To me the handling of this by record company executives and band management is appalling. It must be remembered that Jagger/Richards had nothing to do with the shenanigans that were going on here.

The following is from The Guardian (Australian edition):

“Mick Jagger and Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones have ended one of the most acrimonious copyright disputes in British pop history, by granting Richard Ashcroft all future royalties from his 1997 song ‘Bitter Sweet Symphony’, performed by the Verve.

In a statement Richard Ashcroft said:

‘This remarkable and life-affirming turn of events was made possible by a kind and magnanimous gesture from Mick and Keith, who have also agreed that they are happy for the writing credit to exclude their names and all their royalties derived from the song they will now pass to me.’

Bitter Sweet Symphony is one of the definitive British singles of the 1990s: a moody, existential anthem driven forward by a distinctive string motif. Those four seconds of strings were sampled from an orchestral recording of the Rolling Stones song ‘The Last Time’, but the rights were not fully cleared before the song was released.

Bitter Sweet Symphony reached No 2 in the UK and No 12 in the US, where it was also nominated for a Grammy for best rock song. It was the lead track from the album Urban Hymns, which reached No 1 in the UK and went 10-times platinum, eventually selling more than 10m copies worldwide. It remains the 19th highest-selling album of all time in the UK, ahead of the likes of Simon and Garfunkel’s Bridge Over Troubled Water, Meat Loaf’s Bat Out of Hell, and Ed Sheeran’s x.”

Last year, Rolling Stone’s Rob Sheffield named ‘Bitter Sweet Symphony’ the 40th best song of 1998, the year in which it crossed the Atlantic to become a major hit in the U.S.

Personally, I am really glad that Richard Ashcroft has finally received justice and recognition for his art. In an interview with the BBC, he added, “I never had a personal beef with the Stones. They’ve always been the greatest rock & roll band in the world.”

If you are interested in the full detail of this controversy, I have included the following from the web:

“The Verve vs. The Rolling Stones (1997)

“Bitter Sweet Symphony,” by the Verve (1997) vs. “The Last Time,” by the Rolling Stones (written by Mick Jagger, Keith Richards) (1965)

The Case: The Verve had a major smash with their dreamy “Bittersweet Symphony.” Vocalist Richard Ashcroft penned the song’s lyrics, but the instrumental backing was partially sampled from a symphonic version of the Rolling Stones’ song “The Last Time,” recorded in 1965 by the Andrew Oldham Orchestra. The band had originally agreed to license a five-note segment of the recording in exchange for 50 percent of the royalties, but former Rolling Stones’ manager Allen Klein claimed the Verve voided the agreement by using a larger section than they agreed to use. ABKCO Records, Klein’s holding company, filed a plagiarism suit on behalf of himself and “The Last Time” songwriters Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.

The Verdict: The Verve forfeited all of the songwriting royalties and publishing rights to ABKCO, and the song credit reverted to Jagger and Richards. “We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split,” recalled Verve bassist Simon Jones. “Then they saw how well the record was doing. They rung up and said we want 100 percent or take it out of the shops, you don’t have much choice.”

Andrew Loog Oldham, another former Stones manager who owned the actual recording that was sampled, sued the band in 1999 for $1.7 million in mechanical royalties. In the end, the Verve lost all control of their biggest hit. It was used in a Nike commercial against their wishes, earning them no money and crushing their sense of artistic integrity. “I’m still sick about it,” Ashcroft said in later years. The final insult came when “Bittersweet Symphony” was nominated for a “Best Song” Grammy – with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards named on the ballot.

Why It Matters: The saga of “Bittersweet Symphony” can either be viewed as a cautionary tale or one of the most unjust chapters in musical copyright history. Though the Verve sampled a cover of a Rolling Stones’ song, it was a portion written by orchestra arranger David Whitaker – who was not credited on any of the recordings.”

And of course, I would love to see an MLT cover of ‘Bittersweet Symphony’. After all, they have already recorded a great live cover of ‘The Last Time’. It may not be from the sixties or even the seventies, but what the heck, it’s a great song!

There is one other major copyright issue I believe is worthy of discussing. However, you’ve probably had more than enough from me for now, so I’ll leave it for another post. It is a song that was a huge hit for a soloist back in the mid seventies.

[Howard]

 

This is the performer and the song I was referring to in my previous post.

“‘All by Myself'” is a song by American artist Eric Carmen released in 1975. The verse is based on the second movement (Adagio sostenuto) of Sergei Rachmaninoff’s Piano Concerto No. 2 in C minor, Opus 18.

Rachmaninoff’s music was in the public domain in the United States and Carmen thought no copyright existed on it, but it was still protected outside the U.S. Subsequent to the release of the album, he was contacted by the Rachmaninoff estate and informed otherwise. An agreement was reached in which the estate would receive 12 percent of the royalties from “All by Myself” as well as from his “Never Gonna Fall in Love Again”, which was based on the third movement from Rachmaninoff’s Symphony No. 2″

One of the most notable cover versions of “All by Myself” was recorded by Celine Dion in 1996.

[Howard]

As for the ‘Taurus’ vs ‘Stairway’ dispute, on the band’s self-titled debut, a song called “Taurus” (by Spirit founder Randy Wolfe) delivers a very “Stairway” feel for 2 minutes and 40 seconds.

“The similarity didn’t go unnoticed by Wolfe (whose rock name was Randy California). Before he died in 1997, Wolfe told a magazine he remained ‘sore’ Page and Plant never offered him credit for the song while he was alive. There are certainly similarities.

Similarities aside, you’d have to get into copyright law to determine whether that inspiration counts as infringement. That’s exactly what the next trial in the lawsuit will determine. The terms of the trial will be different, though. While musicians only played sheet music of the song in court during the first trial, jurors will have access to the Spirit recording the second time around.

Meanwhile, they’ll hear the details about when and where Led Zeppelin’s members might have heard it.

Why did it take over 50 years for the lawsuit to materialize? Wolfe may have been sore, but not sore enough to sue. He even once said that if Page and Plant wanted to use that riff, he’d let them have it “without a lawsuit.” Decades after his death, Wolfe’s estate disagreed. As of 2019, the issue remains unsettled, with another trial looming.

[David Herrick]

Howard, do you know whether Neil Sedaka ever complained about Led Zeppelin choosing “Stairway to Heaven” as the name for their song?  I know that’s not enough of a basis to constitute plagiarism, but it is a rather distinctive phrase, and Sedaka was the first to use it as a song title.  If I wrote and released a song under the title of “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band”, I imagine I’d get into trouble with somebody.

 

[Howard]

 

If you’re a fan of rock ‘n’ roll, you hear familiar riffs all the time. “Last Night” by The Strokes sounds a ton like Tom Petty’s “American Girl.” You’ll also catch Buddy Holly riffs in work by David Bowie and notice entire chunks of blues songs lifted (and supercharged) by Led Zeppelin.

You can expect that from music. The Beatles never tried to hide their influences, but they did understand coming too close could get them in legal trouble. McCartney has spoken about changing parts of songs to obscure moments that were too close for comfort.

The Fab Four loved playing Berry’s music from the start, and early in their career, they began lifting parts of the rock pioneer’s tunes. As Rolling Stone has pointed out, Paul McCartney freely admitted to stealing the bass line of Berry’s “I’m Talking About You” for “I Saw Her Standing There.”

While that never prompted any legal action, the band (and Lennon in particular) got caught with its hand in the cookie jar again in 1969. On “Come Together,” Lennon’s tune not only sounded plenty like Berry’s “You Can’t Catch Me”; he actually quoted Berry with the “Here come old flat-top” bit. That gave Berry’s music publisher an opening to sue, and Lennon’s attorneys agreed to settle after John admitted to Berry’s heavy influence.

In one of his final interviews, Lennon said Harrison “walked right into it” with the copyright infringement on “My Sweet Lord.” (The song “He’s So Fine” was the clear antecedent.)
“George could have changed a few bars in that song and nobody could have ever touched him,” Lennon told Playboy. “But he just let it go and paid the price.” The bill, adjusted for inflation, came to about $2.5 million.

John Lennon once said you could replace the name rock ‘n’ roll with Chuck Berry and call it a day. The respect was mutual. Berry, who was one of rock’s greatest songwriters, loved The Beatles and said “Yesterday” was the one song he wished he’d written.

[Howard]

Hi David. This subject has been addressed in the Forum previously. You can’t claim ownership of song titles. I will post more later. I’m about to commence a long bicycle ride!

[Howard]

David, this Forum has a very useful option called “Search Forums”, which is probably under-utilised. If you type in a subject, you’ll be able to find whether that subject has been discussed previously. There is now a considerable database of useful information in the Forum. You could type in just ‘copyright’, for example. However, this issue has previously been addressed under the Topic: ‘Close To You’, including by Lisa.

Following is a response from Richard McGlenn on 26/11/18, under the Topic, ‘Close To You’.

“Generally`, copyright law protection does not extend to song titles because they usually are short and lack sufficient originality. Therefore, you can (and often do) have multiple songs with the same name, and the first to name their song, for example “Crazy,” does not have the right to stop other people from releasing their own songs named “Crazy.” An exception to this is that some long titles may be found to have sufficient originality to be afforded copyright protection.

If the song was a hit song, the song title could be protected from unfair competition as a trademark under trademark law. A trademark is a word, phrase or symbol that is used to identify and distinguish the source of a product or service. You might think of it like a brand.

And this is why there are copyright lawyers.”

[David Herrick]

Thanks, Howard.  I didn’t know about the “search forums” resource.  That should come in more and more handy as the posts pile up.

I remember reading the discussion about “Close to You”, which is why I pointed out that the title is rather distinctive.  But I guess if you don’t copyright or trademark it, it’s fair game.

This example is kind of a sore spot for me.  I adore the Sedaka/Greenfield songs of that era:  pure toe-tapping happiness, second only to Goffin/King in my book.  So whenever I overhear someone discussing “Stairway to Heaven”, I’m always disappointed that it’s not MY “Stairway to Heaven”.

 

[Jung Roe]

Wow Howard there’s some intriguing stuff you dug up there.  I’ll have to go back and read some more to absorb it all.  Really liked the story about Keith Richard’s and Mick Jagger doing the right thing in that copyright lawsuit.  After seeing that Beatles vs Stones video, and other examples you cited, despite the rough around the edge image, I see Mick Jagger and Keith are good hearted people with integrity.

[Howard]

Hi David. I’m replying to your suggestion, “But I guess if you don’t copyright or trademark it, it’s fair game.” No, that’s not quite correct. When it comes to the English language, noone can string a few words together and claim ownership. The language has evolved over thousands of years and includes French, German, Latin, Old Norse and Old English, and many other influences. The language belongs to all of us. To claim copyright you need more than just a title.

Lisa addressed the question of similar song titles in an earlier post as follows:

“Hi Mike, that’s not really something we worry about to be honest. It’s actually rather hard to come by song titles that NOONE has ever used before, so we just write our songs, write the lyrics and then name the song, like the song wants to be named. It’s normally quite self evident due to its lyrics, and we definitely wouldn’t change the lyrics just to get a different title. Hope that makes sense”.

For anyone interested in the history of the English language, I have copied the following extract from Wikipedia.

“Old English (Ænglisc, Anglisc, Englisc, pronounced [ˈæŋɡliʃ]), or Anglo-Saxon, is the earliest historical form of the English language, spoken in England and southern and eastern Scotland in the early Middle Ages. It was brought to Great Britain by Anglo-Saxon settlers probably in the mid-5th century, and the first Old English literary works date from the mid-7th century. After the Norman conquest of 1066, English was replaced, for a time, as the language of the upper classes by Anglo-Norman, a relative of French. This is regarded as marking the end of the Old English era, as during this period the English language was heavily influenced by Anglo-Norman, developing into a phase known now as Middle English.

Old English developed from a set of Anglo-Frisian or Ingvaeonic dialects originally spoken by Germanic tribes traditionally known as the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. As the Anglo-Saxons became dominant in England, their language replaced the languages of Roman Britain: Common Brittonic, a Celtic language, and Latin, brought to Britain by Roman invasion. Old English had four main dialects, associated with particular Anglo-Saxon kingdoms: Mercian, Northumbrian, Kentish and West Saxon. It was West Saxon that formed the basis for the literary standard of the later Old English period, although the dominant forms of Middle and Modern English would develop mainly from Mercian. The speech of eastern and northern parts of England was subject to strong Old Norse influence due to Scandinavian rule and settlement beginning in the 9th century.

Old English is one of the West Germanic languages, and its closest relatives are Old Frisian and Old Saxon. Like other old Germanic languages, it is very different from Modern English and difficult for Modern English speakers to understand without study. Old English grammar is similar to that of modern German: nouns, adjectives, pronouns and verbs have many inflectional endings and forms, and word order is much freer. The oldest Old English inscriptions were written using a runic system, but from about the 8th century this was replaced by a version of the Latin alphabet.”