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Counterpoint
What does “God Only Knows”, “Proud Mary”, “Questionable”, “I Bought Myself A Politician” have in common? The beautiful use of Counterpoint.
I remember growing up my dad use to sit in the living room listening to his music, usually Bach or Beethoven. I’d sometimes sit there on the couch next to him, and I would notice my dad would have his eyes closed and his head would move to the rhythm of the music like a conductor. After a while, he would break his silence and say “listen to that counterpoint! It’s genius”, and then he would go on to explain and articulate what he was talking about the the details of the music. Later in my adulthood, I could understand that appeal my dad was talking about in some music with counterpoint. Bach used it a lot everywhere.
I came across this video the other day where music theorist David Bennet explains counterpoint and examples where it appears in some modern pop music.
I hear counterpoint used very effectively by Mona and Lisa in their vocals in covers like God Only Knows, Proud Mary etc and also in their originals Questionable, and I Bought Myself A Politician and other songs too. It sounds so wonderful.
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57 Replies
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Here is some more wonderful counterpoint in the vocals. It sounds so good as the two voices, Mona and Lisa, weave in and out.
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Hi Jung, finnaly found the time to read/listen this topic. I find it very interessting, however I do not understand it for 100%; I try again later. With me it is I like the music or not, I do not know anything about all kind of technical items. But it seems I like Mona and Lisa because they create greate music, including all kind of good technics from the past.
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Hi Fred. I find the explanation provided in this 4 minutes video, what is counterpoint, the simplest to understand. Counterpoint is two or more independent melodies that together sound extremely good. When they start getting into contrapuntal movement of counterpoint like parallel and oblique motion, you are in music graduate studies territory.
Music is meant to be felt, and not overanalyzed, but the elements like counterpoint, modes, major/minor keys, dissonance/consonance that all play in creating such deep and complex emotions in music is fascinating.
When you hear counterpoint done effectively, you will know it because it is so magical and captivating. Mona and Lisa make good use of counterpoint in their vocal harmonies like in the video examples cited in this thread.
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Here we have counterpoint between Mona and Lisa’s guitar voices, then the vocals come in forming a 3rd voice in counterpoint, it sounds so magical.
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As David Bennet points out in his video explaining how the counterpoint is used in God Only Knows, I’ve marked the point in the MLT video here where the harmonizing sounds so, so good where Lisa and Mona’s vocals separate out in the harmony.
https://youtu.be/SdqMB1GEQAM?t=70
In the guitar strings giveaway video, when Mona and Lisa sing the short rapping part of Stand By Me, we can hear that counterpointing in the harmony there as well that sounds so good. Mona and Lisa’s vocals interweave with Mona doing the rapping part. Love it!
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This song contains perhaps my very favorite example of vocal counterpoint in all of pop music. I cued it to the spot where it occurs:
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This guy was no slouch himself:
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Hi David, wow Paul McCartney’s use of counterpoint is brilliant, it sounds so good, and the same with the previous video by Fortune. I’ve never heard of them before, but man you have quite the impressive background in bands I’ve never heard of. Thanks for sharing these two examples.
Counterpoint is not just two or multiple different voices appearing at the same time, but each voice that has it’s own independent melody form a unity or harmony. I did some more reading up on it, and during the baroque period they created what is called “harmonic counterpoint”.
“A theory professor once told me that Harmony is a byproduct of the rules of counterpoint being used properly.
One trick that is very commonly used in counterpoint is imitative counterpoint. In this trick a melody is introduced in one voice. After the melody is completed, the same melody (often beginning at the interval of a fifth above the original melody) is introduced in a different voice while the first voice moves on to a secondary or counter-melody.
Listen for these types of thematic devices. The melodies will be very pronounced. Instead of hearing chords being sustained under a melodic line you will hear multiple melodies in multiple voices that come together to create a unique kind of harmony.”
Another place where MLT use counterpoint so beautifully is in this one. There are 4 different voices I hear; the two choir voices of multiple Mona’s and multiple Lisa’s in the background, Mona’s vocals, and Lisa’s vocals. Add to that how wonderful Mona and Lisa’s vocals sound together when they are in unison harmony. The interaction between the voice lines is absolutely beautiful. They form a “harmonic counterpoint”. I think this is counterpoint at it’s best, even more beautiful than Bach’s best counterpoint.
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The Beatles made good use of counterpoint, like in this one.
P.S. Mona and Lisa’s acoustic Help from the Billy Butler Saturdays radio interview session is killer!
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Beach Boys used counterpoint all over their songs. Here is a good example from my favourite Beach Boys song. I think the appeal of this song for me is the counterpoint that is so wonderful.
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Of course we can’t discuss counterpoint without acknowledging this:
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David, this is another form of counterpoint in non musical reality.
I am “bach” with another one. Beatles example of counterpoint.
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For all the guitarists here, this video about counterpoint for metal should make sense. When I got into classical music, especially Beethoven and Bach, in my 30’s, I always felt the experience similar to my AC/DC experience a decade earlier. It had a similar hypnotic, soothing and calming effect on me. I think it is the counterpoint! A lot of heavy metal guitar music make use of counterpoint as this video illustrates. When I hear Bach’s Toccatta and Fugue, I can’t help but also hear ACDC Thunderstruck in the back of my mind, and it’s because of the counterpoint.
I’ll be Bach!
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I’m Bach!
As my dad would say, “listen to that counterpoint”. If Bach was alive, he would be a rock and roll guitarist.
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Here is Bach’s counterpoint (Toccatta and Fugue) as it sounded 300 years ago.
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There are so many layers of counterpoint in harmony in this one, both in vocals and instrumentation. I love the guitar bass line throughout.
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And listen to the wonderful captivating layers of harmonizing counterpoint in the vocals in I Bought Myself a Politician.
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