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Music as a language
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This is so fascinating, Jung! I love music theory, especially when accompanied by examples that I can relate to.
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David, I’m fascinated too, and I’m pretty new to music theory myself, just got into it since I got back into piano lessons, MLT inspired during the lock down. But it is fascinating the heck out of me the more I delve into it, for example how something as simple as a slight drop in pitch in a major or minor scale (a flat on the 7th) can create such a pleasant feel in music. I am also convinced that Medieval – Baroque – Classical music evolved into Pop/Rock music of the 60s by such groups as the Beatles that evolved and continue today in songwriters like MLT. I think modern classical music has diverged into a very abstract form that is complex for the sake of being complex without much melody and traditional structure of classical music. It’s lost on me and a lot of people who enjoy the traditional structured western classical music of Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven where the musical aspect take priority over complexity.  For example, Mozart compositions are fairly simple and very efficient with fewer notes than contemporary classical music with all it’s complexity, yet express so much more feeling and grace with greater emotional impact.
It’s interesting how the Kinks are mentioned in that video. They were masters with modes as were the Beatles.
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I’ve always been intrigued by this song from the 60’s because the melody here and there goes a half-step below where you expect. Using my newfound knowledge I thought this might be an example of the Mixolydian mode. But I looked it up and it turns out to be the Dorian mode, where both the third and the seventh notes in the major scale are flattened. (I have so much to learn!) Other examples of songs using the Dorian mode include Eleanor Rigby and Scarborough Fair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGSjytGaCoM
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All 3 songs you mentioned David in Dorian mode evokes a certain mood that is hard to describe in any particular word. A mix of mystery and wonder with some sadness or blues is the closest I can describe. The more music theory or science of music we uncover the more fascinating indeed. I didn’t know there were more modes, but upon some further research I learned there are 7 of them. Incredible how the sequence of sharps or flats placed in the series of notes of a major or minor scale evokes different emotions. I found this interesting description of the modes. It’s like quantum mechanics of music science.
Mode of the Angels & Mode of the Dark Lord
Lydian and Ionian Modes are used in happy and spiritually uplifting music. Mixolydian and Dorian Modes are often used in blues and gospel music. The Aeolian (minor) Mode is defined as melancholy and sad while Phrygian and Locrian Modes are the go-to Modes for scary, dramatic, and otherworldly sounds.
Below is a bright to darkness Mode chart. Notice the more flats, the darker the sound.
Lydian: 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 (Brightest)
Ionian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Dorian: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Phrygian: 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Locrian: 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 (Darkest)In the article where it says “notice the more flats, the darker the sound”. Is that why all the flat keys on the piano are black? 🙂 The more black keys you use, the darker the sound? Kind of funny. 🙂
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I just found and watched the entire one-hour Bernstein video that you excerpted. He covers all of the modes. They make a little more sense now, although I can’t say all my questions have been answered.
The main thing I was able to latch onto is that a scale can be played on the piano in each mode using white keys only. For the order that you listed them above, the first note of each scale would be respectively F, C, G, D, A, E, and B.
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David, it looks like there is a whole series of Leonard Bernstein videos called “Young People’s Concert” that each touch upon an aspect of music theory (What is a mode?, What is a melody?, What does music mean?etc….some juicy stuff) that is presented in a simple manner understandable for people like myself with little knowledge of music theory.  It’s presented in a fun engaging way. I will explore more of his videos.
I will play around more on the piano the modes in the scales starting with those keys you mentioned.
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Lol..,still have me lost and feeling like an outsider with all this music theory jargon, but at same time fascinating and intriguing to read though have no clue or grasp to and in understanding what all this means, and not being a fan of classical music doesn’t help either, never was a fan, nor do I really wish to be either, it’s just not my thing, doesn’t jive for me…lol
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Jacki, this is all new for Jung and me too. Check out on YouTube the Bernstein “Young People’s Concerts” that Jung mentioned. I watched one, and it was really helpful. I’m not a big classical music fan either, but the topics here apply to all types of music.
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Music shares common theory across all genres. Leonard Bernstein gives some interesting insight for sure.
click the image to open in full size
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This video helps me understand modes a little better. It samples the Bernstein video, and even includes a couple of musical examples from Star Wars. And it shows that there are actually more than seven definable modes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNY_ZCUBmcA
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Loved this video David, and I think David Bennet who does all these music theory videos is brilliant. His other one I posted earlier about Beatles and whether they know music theory I thought was great too.  These videos seem to unlock all the magic of music. Amazing how flattening a note in a scale makes it darker, and sharpening more notes tend to brightens it. I liked the reference to some of the Star Wars sound tracks that I can relate to.  Even talked about heavy metal going dark thanks to the Phrygian mode. I can watch this video a few more times, but it’s getting awfully late in my neck of the woods. Thanks for sharing the video! Really enjoying the music theory side of things that make my piano learning that much more meaningful and fun.
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Lol… David and Jung….and I continue to struggle with and grasp this whole understanding of Music Theory concept, even its basics… it’s like one big mathematical equation to which with my lifetime struggle of math understanding, illiterate basically, to point, part of it not main reason for failing Grade 7….even with your videos, although the visual references somewhat just scratch the surface barely to my understanding to grasp…. it’s interesting to see and read but I just can’t correlate and grasp …I feel like an outsider somewhat amongst all here who are musicians….lol… I can sing, somewhat, have no clue what key I sing, I know I can’t sing high stuff, but do better with in the middle to a low register in terms of where on a scale the key or note that I’m doing for. Also, if I’m ever going to actually succeed in playing any other instrument beyond a tambourine or harmonica,  my inclination to which I’d be most comfortable at, playing by ear wise, not having to rely on music sheets, etc but rather watch and hear what I see being done and grasp the concept that way…. when I borrowed the instruments that I did long before all this Covid stuff occured, from the local library branches that offered the instruments to be loaned from, I tried and enjoyed the bongo drums, another drum instrument , banjo, uke…But as for banjo and uke , I just fiddled around with them, notbreally playing actual notes, but just plucking and humming along doing my own thing…but with playing on the drum instruments, I actually sandpg and played along with MLT songs, I found I could easily drum along rhythm wise to the songs, maybe I’m meant to play drum like instruments and harmonica, tambourine and sing but can air guitar better rather than play it for real…lol…I won’t give up trying, but it is frustrating when others can easily grasp, what I cannot for whatever my reason is physical/brain-hand/eye coordination wise….I love guitars and ukes and pianos, just wish I could play them….I would like to onecdaybtinkercaround from library, the mandolin, and one day, try a slide guitar, having it sit on lap, like Jeff Healey did idea, and pluck and pick but use bar to slide across fretboard, that method, I know I could manouvre with some success, because I can easily reach and because sitting on my lap…. but I did come across 2 great YouTube channels for guitar teaching that I found would possiblity give me a hope to maybe , key word maybe, attempt to get a foot into door on actually playing a guitar/like or any stringed instrument, these 2 guitar tutors online are : Tom Strehle and Jamie Andrea’s, also would love to play the harp one day….sit on a stool/chair, have harp in front of me,, reach out best I could with my short arms and pluck away, my Irish heritage within me, likes that dream…
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Jacki, all the music theory is a little overwhelming for me to, and I can’t say I grasp everything either, but it’s just fun and fascinating scraping on the surface.  That video I posted here earlier, “How much music theory did the Beatles know” really piqued my curiosity more about music theory.  As I embark on my rudimentary piano lessons, it’s nice and fun knowing I am just tapping into a massive ice berg of music magic potential.  I learned the other day the difference between a harmonica and blues harp. The latter is just a subset of harmonicas called diatonic harmonicas that are more suited for blues, folk, country, and rock music with it’s capability to play simple major scales and chords on it. There are other chromatic and tremelo harmonica types. I think it’s a great idea to give the guitar a try with those youtube lessons.  I may pick up an acoustic guitar down the road after I get up to speed on the piano a bit more. My suggestion would be, given you own a harmonica, check out some youtube lessons for it and give it a go.
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Thanks for the mini-primer on the blues harp, Jung. I had never heard that term before I joined the club, and I was constantly baffled as to why people kept referring to a harmonica as a harp. Actually, I still don’t understand why the term “harp” is used, given that that’s already a thing in its own right.
I’ve learned so much in this club. Before joining, the only kinds of guitars I could have named if you had asked me were acoustic and electric. I didn’t even know a bass guitar was a different instrument. I thought playing the bass just meant playing the low notes on a “regular” guitar.
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David, I haven’t figured out why the term harp is used either, as harp to me is a stringed instrument, but to make it more confusing or interesting, the harmonica is also known as a French harp! So a blues harp is one type of a French harp or harmonica. 🙂  So I can see where the blues harp term comes from, given the harmonica is also known as a French harp, a blues harp is a bluesy version of a French harp. But still not sure why harp at all in the French harp terminology 🙂  And in addition to the diatonic, chromatic, and tremelo French harps, there are also octave, orchestral, and bass as well, all suited for specific styles of music. Chromatic suited for jazz and classical, octave for alpine folk and cajun, tremelo for German folk music etc. The Hohner website is a rich resource.
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