MonaLisa Twins Homepage Forums MLT Club Forum General Discussion How Chuck Berry’s – “Roll Over Beethoven” defined Rock and Roll

  • How Chuck Berry’s – “Roll Over Beethoven” defined Rock and Roll

    Posted by Jung Roe on 07/10/2020 at 20:34

    So I awoke this morning to the sound of “Roll Over Beethoven”.  It was spotlighted on the CBC radio and hailed as one of the earliest and most important song to define Rock and Roll!

    Apparently when Chuck Berry was growing up, his sister Lucy was a formal student of  classical music and always played on the piano.  Chuck on the other hand hand was into his rough and ready self taught popular music and a rivalry developed between the siblings for time on the piano.  Inspired by this rivalry with his sister, Chuck wrote “Roll Over Beethoven” as a reference to how Beethoven would roll in his grave if he knew how classical music had given way to a new genre of music Chuck Berry was promoting that would become rock and roll.  It was one of Chuck Berry’s earliest hit songs in 1956.

    Per Wikipedia, “Berry’s single was one of 50 recordings chosen in 2003 by the Library of Congress to be added to the National Recording Registry. In 2004, “Roll Over Beethoven” was ranked number 97 on Rolling Stone’s list of “The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time”. The accompanying review stated that it “became the ultimate rock & roll call to arms, declaring a new era”.

     

    The opening guitar solo sounds similar to Berry’s most famous hit, “Johnny B. Goode”. The sheet music for the two songs is very similar.[8] Koda calls it a “masterpiece” that helped to define rock and roll.[4]

    Roll Over Beethoven, was also one of the first songs John Lennon and Paul McCartney learned and performed before they formed the Beatles, and later became a minor hit for them.

    Per Wikipedia “Roll Over Beethoven” was a favourite of John Lennon, Paul McCartney, and George Harrison even before they chose “the Beatles” as their name, and they continued to perform it right into their American tours of 1964. Their version of “Roll Over Beethoven” was recorded on July 30, 1963, for their second British LP, With the Beatles, and features Harrison on vocals and guitar.

    It’s quite fascinating for me how the song touted to have defined Rock and Roll by the “Father of Rock and Roll” Chuck Berry was about Beethoven, and how Chuck Berry was inspired by the rivalry with his classical music trained sister to create this song.  I think instead Beethoven would be dancing for joy on his grave for the way classical music led to rock and roll!  🙂

    https://youtu.be/sij1R6cjh4A

     

    Jung Roe replied 4 years, 1 month ago 6 Members · 34 Replies
  • 34 Replies
  • Jung Roe

    Member
    07/10/2020 at 21:40

    Here the Beatles do this song wonderful justice:

    https://youtu.be/90uCp8Jj_TU

  • David Herrick

    Member
    08/10/2020 at 02:30

    This was my first experience with the phrase “Roll Over, Beethoven”:

    Does anyone else remember these things from the 70’s?  They were short soundless film loops, usually taken from TV shows, that were encased in a red plastic cartridge which was inserted into a manually powered viewer/projector (as shown in the bottom photos).

    Because they were hand-cranked, you could watch them fast or slow, forwards or backwards, frame by frame, etc.  They taught me how drawings and still images are brought to life.

    The only downside was that the light bulb for the projector was extremely low wattage, so you could only see them if you watched in the closet.

     

  • Tom Fones

    Member
    08/10/2020 at 04:39

    Isn’t it interesting how many noteworthy guitarists we can name who

    got bit by the music bug while taking  piano lessons in their youth.

    Off the top of my head i can think of …

    Mac MacAnally, Arlo Guthrie, Albert Lee, Nils Lofgren,  and now we learn about

    Chuck Berry thanks to our great researcher.

    Great job Jung

  • Jung Roe

    Member
    08/10/2020 at 04:41

    David, I had those 3D slide wheel View-Masters and psychedelic telescope toys, but a hand cranked movie cassette viewer would have been deluxe!

  • Jung Roe

    Member
    08/10/2020 at 04:48

    Thanks Thomas, and in that second video, George does a mean Roll Over Beethoven guitar riff too doesn’t he.

  • Joseph Manzi

    Member
    08/10/2020 at 15:03

    Hey Jung,

    Interesting on how Beethoven came about. Meaning with his sister into classical music. I knew the meaning of song but not how it came about. Great research Jung.  I had the pleasure to see Chuck four times in my life. He was the true King of Rock & Roll in my eyes. He was a great guitarist for his time, He was a true showman on stage. He was a great song writer.  Now this is my opinion and I’m sure a lot would disagree with me. I know they call Elvis the King put to me Elvis was a performer and great one. But he didn’t write his songs. Chuck was an artist, who wrote his own material. And because of that I consider him the true King of Rock & Roll.

    I know a lot will not agree. But that’s ok. That’s what music is all about. Personal choice.

    Hail Hail Rock & Roll…

    David,   Never saw those Snoopy Movie Cassettes. The picture you used. Is that one you still have? If so that amazing and must be worth some money.

  • David Herrick

    Member
    08/10/2020 at 16:00

    I agree, Joe.  To be the king you have to be a master of all the aspects of your craft, including songwriting in this case.  And you hear a lot more rock-and-roll artists cite Chuck Berry rather than Elvis as a major influence.

    I’ll have to ask my parents whether they boxed up and stored those cassettes and the projector, or if they eventually threw them out.  Before home video they were the ultimate self-entertainment experience for me.  I had forgotten how large they loomed in my life.  I found this demo video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX7NmO-k3Jk

    By the way, the picture is one I got off the internet.  I don’t even remember the cassette being inside a box.

     

  • Joseph Manzi

    Member
    08/10/2020 at 17:00

    David ,

    That so true what you said about artists citing Chuck Berry rather than Elvis as a major influence.  As Mel Brooks says  –  It’s good to be the King

    Hopefully your parents kept them. Maybe that something you can share with your children.

    Enjoyed the commercial video, even liked the music.  Have a good one David.

    Joe

  • Michael Rife

    Member
    09/10/2020 at 14:10

    Have a few comments about this one.

    1) To be honest most of the US would not have known about Chuck Berry or Little Richard or Carl Perkins or the Isley Brothers or Smokey Robinson had it not been for the Beatles.  There are several reasons for this.  One is that at the time the US was segregated and so was the music.  Second, it is because Chuck was having some legal problems then and was kinda kept off TV……as was Jerry Lee Lewis.  Third, the music labels were busy looking for the next Elvis:  Pat Boone, Frankie Avalon, Kookie Burns, Paul Anka and the like.  This meant the real talent was being over-looked.  Another group of musicians was also popular then which were the ‘girl groups’……….I have nothing against ‘girl groups’ but we could only hear about fatal motorcycle accidents for just so long.  So, then the Beatles happened and then we looked backwards to Chuck and the others and we found out we liked them.

    2) Concerning RnR and the instigators of RnR.  Yes, Elvis was the king but he stayed with only certain types of songs (exception:  I Can’t Help Falling In Love With You……genius lyrics……”Wise men say only fools rush in”……who thinks of that??).  After that he went into the army and then he made movies that were mediocre at best.  So, to me RnR is a 4 legged stool with the legs being Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Roy Orbison, and the Everly Brothers.  Each of the 4 gave something a little different to RnR.  Chuck gave us guitar riffs.  Little Richard gave us the show and flamboyance and the unrestrained happiness.  Roy gave us the ballads and a high vocal register.  The Everly Brothers gave us the harmonies.

    I could be all wrong about this but this is what I have noticed.  Mike.

  • Joseph Manzi

    Member
    09/10/2020 at 15:34

    Good points Michael,   Some I agree with and some I don’t. Since you are an American and me too. ( Love your Flag ) I think a lot of it has to do with. Where you were brought up. I’m sure if I lived in the deep south I would be exposed to different music than say someone who lived up north or on the coast or the heartland.

    So it’s a hard question to answer. I also believe when you talk rock & roll you have to give a lot of credit to the father of R&R . That would be the Blues. All those early great blues players. i.e.  Robert Johnson, Muddy, Howling the list goes on and on. My all time favorite is Buddy Guy.

    One thing I remember was my mother played records by  Ella Fitzgerald, Nat King Cole and other Black performers. To this day I love that music. It’s imbedded in my head and soul.

    You mention that the Beatles helped turn people on to these artist. Some of that is true. But who turned the Beatles onto those people. I’m sure they were Americans or someone who had access to American music. So some Americans were listening to those artists.

    I respect your thoughts and l am glad you shared them Michael. Like I said. That’s what music is all about. Personal choice.

    I liked your  4 legged stool with the legs being Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Roy Orbison, and the Everly Brothers. This is probably true. In fact it is true.

    With that I want to wish two John’s  a Happy Birthday on Oct. 9.

    John Lennon and John Entwistle

    Have a great day Michael.

     

  • Jung Roe

    Member
    09/10/2020 at 19:43

    Hey Joe, thanks.

    Wow, some awesome insight and perspective from everyone.  I think sometimes it takes all the differing points of views and opinions expressed to get a clearer glimpse at the truth.  Truth is such an elusive enigmatic thing.  Both Newton and Einstein grasped glimpses into the truth of the universe, as both their laws are used in physics today, but neither can say their theories are absolutely true as another scientist will likely come along in the future with another revolutionary theory.

    I agree Chuck was the greater admired artist than Elvis, writing his own songs, inspiring everyone from the Beach Boys to AC DC and everyone in between.  Even Angus Young, when he romps on stage with the lead guitar riffs, has a lot of Chuck Berry going on.  In an interview Angus talked about Chuck and his influence on him.

    While Chuck Berry was a truer artist, Elvis to his credit created a vision that also inspired a generation.  John, Paul and George greatly admired Elvis and his music and style, although the same sentiment was not reciprocated by Elvis.  John said in high school he grew his side burns to be like Elvis, and walked and talked like Elvis.  It’s just speculation, but if it wasn’t for Elvis, it’s possible there might not have been a Beatles.  While the Beatles admired Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly more musically because they wrote their own music, Elvis created a ton of passion and vision for Rock and Roll, which might have just been the catalyst for artists like John Lennon to forgo the traditional career pursuits and pursue Rock and Roll as a career.  Passion is a strong motivator.

    For me Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley are on an equal footing as the King or Father of Rock and Roll for their different but equally important contributions.

    David, love that Snoopy Drive In.  I wish I met you as a kid, we could have had a lot of fun!  🙂

     

     

  • Michael Rife

    Member
    09/10/2020 at 19:49

    Hi Joe;

    I think it had to do with timing.  Chuck was having legal troubles and Elvis in 1964 was not the same as Elvis in 1957.  But, the southern thing I am not sure about.  For example, Chick’s first #1 song was ‘My Ding – a – Ling’ which was some time in the early 1970s.  None of his late 1950s classics ever charted higher than #2 and only had 5 in the top 10.    Also, Nat King Cole had a TV show on during the late 1950s but was promptly cancelled because the US was not ready for that in any region.  I always thought that was unfair.  During the late 1950s and 1960s the only show that would give Nat King Cole, Little Richard, etc. a chance was Ed Sullivan and maybe Steve Allen.  Other than that there was no one.  I do remember seeing Little Stevie Wonder on some program when I was a kid but I am sure it was neither of those two. BTW I have some of Nat King Cole’s CDs in my collection.

    I agree the roots of RnR were the old blues guys and the stool example was to show what was there immediately for the Beatles to build on which was the legs of the stool.  But, also there was Carl Perkins and a few others that the Beatles listened to.

  • Joseph Manzi

    Member
    09/10/2020 at 20:17

    Hey Michael , Where did you grow up?  Just curious.

    Yea you are so right with the injustice that went on back then. You know you said Ed Sullivan

    He was god sent. All the acts that premiered on his show. He really had a diverse show, when you stop and think. I’m not sure if he is in the Rock & Roll Hall. If not he should be. I guess you would need to add Dick Clark American Bandstand, Where the Action Is and a few others show.

    Actually I read once that if Carl Perkins did not have a accident he would have been equal to Elvis. If my memory serves me well. Carl was a great artist and Eddie Cochran, Bill Harley were too. But remember back then R&R was considered the Devils music.. What a joke.

    There this band Blackberry Smoke that just did a song I never heard by Little Richard called

    Southern Child.

    A great song, have you ever heard this one?

    Have a good day my friend.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiN0Q3ULbKY

    Joe

  • Joseph Manzi

    Member
    09/10/2020 at 20:23

    Hey Jung

    Loved your comment. Hit the nail on the head my friend.

    Insight and perspective from everyone.  I think sometimes it takes all the differing points of views and opinions expressed to get a clearer glimpse at the truth.  Truth is such an elusive enigmatic thing.

    Have a good one.

    Joe

  • Joseph Manzi

    Member
    09/10/2020 at 20:29

    Little Richard version which I never knew it existed .

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2AvcgvP7y0

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