The Eurovision song contest…or, will MLT become the next ABBA?

[Howard]

My concern wasn’t to do with any risk to their artistic integrity by competing but more the risk to their control of their business if it expanded beyond their current resources. Too much commercial success would come with the downside of relying on external assistance and their current business model is what has produced the MLT we now all follow. We have to accept that the Wagners know just how big they need to be before their business model is compromised. For one thing, club members would no longer be able to expect the current interactive relationship we enjoy with MLT.

[Christomir Rackov]

Howard, I understood your spefidic concern, so I wasn’t asking about it 🙂

I have my own point of view there too, but I won’t go into a discussion about it – let’s just say it makes absolute sense from your point of view (and maybe from MLT’s too), and I respect that.

But in my comment/question I was referring to Jung (and his concerns, which I thought I had made it clear were eliminated by default in my assumed scenario), not to you. 🙂

[Christomir Rackov]

And yes, of course, Lisa did present a very compelling case highlighting a lot of what could go wrong with trying to get into the ESC; but it was specifically about Austria, and those first hand accounts that Rudi learned of personally were by former participants for Austria… right? And yes, I trust 100% Rudi’s inside knowledge there, and I too am now convinced that MLT should never submit a song to represent Austria in particular, as things there seem to me simply awful in that respect. 🙁 And frankly, I am not surprised, since I myself can’t remember ever having liked a song representing Austria in the ESC. Also, there was a reason why MLT left Austria 5 years ago, and things are interconnected here too. 😉

However, fortunately, Austria is just one of the 40+ countries sending songs to the ESC every year, and it is NOT the same everywhere. As I already explained multiple times, many other countries allow for the hypothetical scenario I described to actually happen, and for a real honest artist to represent them with their own authentic music, without being pressured to write a song in a certain stupid stereotypical style, or present it in a certain stupid way, or give up any creative freedom or rights over anything at all. I can confirm that that happens sometimes, because I have seen and heard such artists and such songs in the ESC every year! And countries don’t HAVE to send a song, performed only by their own citizens… 😉

So, please, don’t generalize, and don’t assume that, just because Austria always does something stupid, it necessarily means that everyone else does the same stupid thing too.

And don’t assume that, just because many Eurovision fans are the stupid Eurovision junkies I described, it means that all of us are like that. We are not!

I am a fan of Eurovision not for that majority of bland stereotypical “ESC style” songs that countries like Austria send every year – I am a fan because of that small portion of great and genuine songs and artists I discover by watching it every year; and which I might have never known about at all, if they hadn’t gone to the big stage of the ESC to represent some country.

And again – I don’t even care about the final standings and all that ridiculous voting shenanigans. And I am sure many other fans are like me. And, even if we are a small minority of the millions of viewers, that’s still millions (or at least hundreds of thousands) of people, who will pay attention to an actual good song by a genuinely talented singer-songwriter or band, without caring whether it finishes in 2nd or in last place!

So, that article that Lisa shared has nothing to with anything of what I said – I already clearly explained that the standings or the voting wouldn’t matter at all, for a genuine artist/band like MLT, who would just go there to present THEIR song (on THEIR own terms) to millions of new viewers/listeners, and wouldn’t care the least bit whether they finish 3rd, or 10th, or last; as I said, they all get the same amount of exposure and publicity. Artists like MLT are clever and reasonable enough to not allow such things to “get to their head”… So I don’t understand why Lisa brought it up at all, and why you, Jung, thought it strengthened the case for NEVER applying to go to the ESC, under any terms, to represent any country :/

BTW, that article wasn’t so illuminating at all for me, because I have known those things about the “neighbor voting” since forever. It’s indeed ridiculous and stupid; but I have long ago learned to not care or get angry about it, as I simply realized that the final standings don’t matter that much, so all that fuss about the voting to form them is a waste of time.

So, please, let’s not waste our time bringing it up here again, and using it as an argument for anything. All that matters in my recommendation to MLT is the opportunity to bring their music to millions more ears. That is it. NOT what place they would finish in, in the standings, or the idiotic voting system for determining that place 😐 That’s irrelevant.

(And, if Howard is reading this – yes, I know there is also your point of “Do they want that at all?” – to reach millions of ears with their music. 🙂 But that’s a whole other conversation…)

[Howard]

Wow Itso! You certainly do have a passion for the ESC. I too was well aware of the ‘neighbour voting’ and other political issues involved. I’m also sure that if MLT ever decided to submit an entry it would not be through Austria. However, to submit an entry through Britain would require them to spend substantial time lobbying and appeasing the appropriate power brokers anyway.

Your suggestion ‘basically, to go there and show these people what real, honest music is!’, I think is addressed by Lisa’s comment: ‘They know they have to write and perform a song that fits into the ESC cliche to have a chance to win that is often very different to the original style of the artist.’  And: ‘Every country wants to win and therefore politics takes over and tells you what’s appropriate and what not. We think the ESC is a good example of what happens when art is guided by political forces’.

I really doubt that any of MLTs current songs would be deemed acceptable, thereby requiring them to write something that ‘fits into the ESC cliche’. I may be wrong, but I can’t imagine any country accepting a submission that didn’t fit their criteria of the appropriate formula to be a winner in that particular year.

I guess we can leave the last words to Lisa: ‘The win-win situation that Christomir describes in his post above would make a lot of sense in a perfect world.’ And: ‘can you imagine Bob Dylan or the Beatles following a two hours ESC televoting to see if they won’. No disrespect to you Christomer and other ESC fans, but I feel exactly the same way as a non competing viewer!

By the way, do you prefer Christomer or Itso? And just a little suggestion from someone who’s first and only language is English, regarding titles we prefer Mr or Ms. We did away with ‘Miss’ years ago as it is considered to be redundant. Consequently Lisa would be addressed as simply Lisa or Ms Wagner and we know that the twins are fine with just their first names Mona and Lisa. They probably wouldn’t object to you referring to them as Miss either!

I really appreciate your contributions as you have an extensive knowledge of all things European while mine, apart from the UK, is quite deficient. Enjoy your day!

[Christomir Rackov]

Wait, why are we still talking about televoting, competing and non competing viewers, and about winning the ESC? :/ I thought I already explained several times to you, and to Jung, and to everyone here that that has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about and what I am suggesting! How many times do I need to explain this for you guys to understand? In the scenario, which I described, and which is the ONLY possible one for a song by MLT to go to the ESC, they would NOT care about the voting, or the final standings, or the win! Because they are not stupid. They would be doing it with the sole purpose of promotion and exposure of the song, and of themselves as songwriters and artists – that’s it! Period.

So, what you claim are Lisa’s final words – “Can you imagine Bob Dylan or the Beatles following a two hours ESC televoting to see if they won.” – actually has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about, because yes – I too can’t imagine Bob Dylan or the Beatles following a two hours ESC televoting to see if they won, AND certainly I can’t imagine MLT doing it either –  they would just be waiting for it to finish, so they can go home, and tell their fans (and newly earned fans) the truth – that they do NOT care about the placing, and they are just happy they were able to share their  music with so many people, and that they made many new fans as a result. That’s it. Absolutely nothing to do with the results and voting!

And yes, them admitting they didn’t care about winning would probably anger the TV station that selected their song to represent the country and sponsored its pre-ESC promotion, but really, what could they do about it? It would be all over, and MLT would simply go back to what they typically do as a indie band/project. It’s not like they need to suck up to that TV station, or to anyone else in the music industry, in the hopes of another song by them getting selected in some following year – that never really happens anyway, especially in the bigger countries (while a smaller country like Bulgaria could sometimes sends 2 songs by the same artist in the span of a few years… but even that happens very rarely) – they choose songs by different new artists each year anyway!

And yes, I too am perfectly aware that the songs that MLT write would almost certainly be deemed not acceptable and not “suitable” for ESC, by some station like the BBC! I am not naive, and I admitted this many times here. And that is because of obvious reasons, which I discussed at length above here, so I am not going to repeat them yet again. But I don’t know why you mentioned “requiring them to write something that fits into the ESC cliche”, when I already explained that I would NOT in any way suggest that they should do anything like that – of course they should only write what they feel like writing and never cater to anyone else’s wishes or “requests” in that respect! Duh.

But again – “almost certainly be deemed not acceptable” is not the same as “100% certain to be deemed not acceptable”! You know – there are many different people in this world, with many different music tastes and ideas in their head; so, as I said earlier, what if, in my dream scenario, some influential person in the BBC (or in the TV station of another country… probably not Austria), who is in charge of those decisions and song selections, happens to like one of MLT’s songs, and suddenly decides to push for its selection as that country’s song for that year… and then it gets chosen? Seems unlikely and miraculous to you? Yes, it is – I already admitted it is… but it is not impossible! But for it to have even that tiny chance to happen in the first place, they need to submit their songs for that person to hear them! If they never submit any, then yeah – they won’t be heard and it won’t happen.

And no, I did NOT suggest even for a minute that in order to submit an entry through the UK, they should spend substantial (or any) time lobbying and appeasing the appropriate power brokers – no! They should absolutely not to that! So I don’t understand why you are bringing up things like that at all, since the very premise I had set for the whole idea precludes that from the very beginning – I said “no time, effort or money spent”, period.

And sorry, Howard, but it also didn’t make any sense that my suggestion that they would just “go there and show these people what real honest music is” was addressed by Lisa’s comment: “They know they have to write and perform a song that fits into the ESC cliche to have a chance to win that is often very different to the original style of the artist.” and “Every country wants to win and therefore politics takes over and tells you what’s appropriate and what not.” Again, seriously, why are we still talking about WINNING, when I told you several times already that that is not the point at all? :/ And MLT would know it, and wouldn’t care about it! So yes, if they get lucky, and their song gets miraculously chosen the way I suggested (by the UK… and maybe not so miraculously – by a third country), from that point on that is literally all they would be required to do – go there and show the song they have written to the entire Europe and the world, i.e. – show to all of those people what real, honest music is… because that is what every song by MLT is. And THAT song by MLT would surely be like that too, and there would be no way for anyone else to influence how it is written and arranged, and what it sounds like. Again, and for the last time – that would be because it would be selected AFTER they have already written and recorded it, so THAT will be the song that is selected; period. No way to change it after it is selected – that doesn’t make sense at all. There is a deadline for national selections, so once that deadline passes, MLT and their song are firmly in the ESC, and no one can tell them what to do with their song. If the people at the TV station change their mind for some reason, they can probably withdraw their country completely from the ESC, but they can’t change the song.

And yes, you are wrong, if you can’t imagine ANY country accepting a submission that doesn’t fit the infamous “appropriate formula to be a winner in that particular year”. You forget (or maybe didn’t read carefully when I said it) that that stupid formula, resulting in the boring and formulaic music we already discussed, and which all of us here dislike, is NOT really the criteria that EVERY country in Europe deploys for it! I told you: there is diversity – different countries, with different criteria for what songs they want to send to the ESC, and it even varies within one country for the different years! Please, don’t just assume that everyone in charge at those TV stations in those 40+ countries is as narrow-minded and set in their ways, as the people at the Austrian ORF seem to be! Have more faith in the good in people, and in their common sense, please. And, yeah, I already told you – I have seen many such songs that go “against the trend” representing different countries over the years. So it is not only possible – it actually happens quite often. 😉 Just not in Austria, and maybe (most of the time) not in the UK…

You are also wrong that I “have a passion for the ESC”. No, I don’t – at least not for that aforementioned majority of the songs that are stupid, boring and formulaic, and try too hard to be “current” and “trendy”. And definitely – not for those political agendas, or the voting shenanigans. I only have a passion for discovering those new great songs and artists – those gems among the dirt I was talking about, which shine among all that mediocrity, and which I might have never heard, or known of their existence, if they hadn’t gone to represent some country at the ESC. Exactly like most of Europe and the world hasn’t heard of MLT and doesn’t know of their existence. 🙁 And I really wish they could become one of those gems that would shine among the dirt – actually, the most brilliant gem – if one of their songs could ever be performed at that big stage for those millions of viewers. Despite how unlikely that scenario is, and how much luck they would need. But if they never try (not even when it costs them nothing), then yeah – in that case, it will definitely never happen. 🙁

So yeah, that is what I really have a passion for – not for the ESC itself (at least not the prevailing bad side of it), but rather – for the possibility (however remote it is) that MLT could use the ESC for sharing their music with Europe and the world, and become part of that good portion of the ESC I was talking about – the songs and artists that go against the trends and cliches… and they would likely be the most talented artist EVER in that good portion. That is what I have a passion for – my dream of sharing MLT’s great music with millions of other people, not just a few thousands, as it is now!

And no, I don’t have a preference between Christomir and Itso – one is my full name, and the other is the only possible short form (hypocorism) for it. Just don’t invent anything else 😛

As for “Miss Lisa”, I call her that here jokingly – I thought that was obvious…LOL I’ve met her in person, 5 years ago, and I wouldn’t really call her “Miss”, if I talked to her in person; I am not THAT silly 😛 It just came to me that way here in the forum – sorry, if it bothers you. 😐 I even know to pronounce “Lisa” correctly, as it was originally in German. 😉 All of you English speaking people (and even she herself these days) pronounce it the English way. 😛

[Richard McGlenn]

Concerning the size of the business that the MLTs are building they already are likely dealing with situations where they are going to have to bring in others to deal with the shipping of merchandise or they will be physically trapped by their own success. The MLT Club Wire gave a clue that they have been out of the country recently, possibly doing another “get out of town and write some songs” trip and someone would have to ship merch in their absence.

I once asked them how far do they want this adventure to take them as far as their careers inquiring if they thought they would like it to get to the level that it got wild and crazy to keep up with and Lisa replied “insane sounds pretty good”. Now whether that’s still the case is a question they continue to have to ask themselves. If they decide to perform live again or even tour they will need to pay for  promotion and deal with the logistics involved with that, which isn’t a big issue artistically.

For now I know the focus is still on writing new original music and building their portfolio of musical assets which gives them the best opportunity to monetize it and support themselves. I don’t think there is any reason for them to compromise on that goal and protect the process of creating their original songs the way they want to. It’s going to mainly be in the area of distribution and promotion I think that they will have some decisions to make as their fan base continues to grow. If for some reason they were suddenly discovered by a large share of the world and demand for merchandise and live performances is greatly expanded, they would have to decide how they want to handle that end of the business. They pride themselves on providing the best product musically, visually and making very sure that their customers are totally satisfied with the product they are buying. They should be able to continue to do that even if they have to delegate more on distribution and promotion to others.

 

[Christomir Rackov]

Thank you for this great comment – I absolutely agree!

And, unlike Howard, I don’t believe that would be such a problem for them, or would scare them that much – Mona and Lisa in particular are genius songwriters and musicians, NOT businesswomen, so it doesn’t make sense for them to be worried about having to leave the bussiness and logistics side of things entirely to others! I hope they become insanely famous 8|

[Jung Roe]

Christomir, I was speaking holistically when I said ESC would risk artistic integrity for all the reasons Lisa clearly articulated in bullet points.  Yes in a perfect world, in your very specific scenario it would appear there is little risk, :

i.e., if their song is somehow selected AFTER it is already written, and no one asks them to change it even 1 %, or to change the way they present it… or give up any rights, or money… ?

But in your own words that would be very unlikely!  Regardless of that, the whole concept of ESC, and presenting their song to be  judged by a panel if it passes certain criteria, however effortless, does not sit well with MLT’s artistic values.  We should respect that.

[Christomir Rackov]

What panel? :/ Once their song is selected, they are guaranteed to go and perform THAT song on that big stage, for millions of people. That’s it. At that point, why would they have to care about any panels, or televotes? And why do you think they would? And what does it have to do with their artistic values? :/ Sorry, but that doesn’t make any sense. That would all be in their minds… and I know they are intelligent and mature enough to free their minds of all that. 🙂

The entire purpose would be to just give a great live performance (as they are capable of) of that song, on that big stage, and present it to those millions of viewers, and gain many new fans. It has nothing to do with panels, or televotes, or all that shenanigans with the politics, etc. They’ll only care and get involved with that, if they decide to. And they’ll decide not to. 😉

[Christomir Rackov]

As for my “dream scenario” being very unlikely – yes, it is, and I admitted that from the very beginning, so I am not sure why we are still discussing it… ?

As I said several times already, “very unlikely” is till much better than “impossible”. Like… a 0.05% chance is an infinity times bigger chance than a 0% chance, I’m sure you know that. 😉 And I do believe it’s not 0% – I even mentioned in replies to you and Howard a couple of ways that it *could* happen: 1) them being lucky enough that some influential person at the BBC happens to suddenly like a song MLT have submitted, despite most people being narrow-minded, and completely dismissing retro music, or 2) MLT submitting their song to the TV station of a 3rd country, where there should be many more people in charge that are open-minded to “un-ESC-like” and retro music like theirs (the fact that I have heard other countries get represented by such songs clearly proves that it’s a real possibility).

There are probably further possible ways for it happen, besides those two.

But one thing is for sure – if they never try anything (even when it cost nothing to try), the chance will remain at 0%. And, to me, that would be a pity.

Because that might mean Lisa and the other Wagners seriously assume that the entire ESC is stupid, ALL of the 40+songs entering it every year are awful and stupid, ALL of the people selecting them from the various countries’ TV stations are narrow-minded and stupid, and all of the music fans viewing and listening to the ESC (and any of the songs in the run-up to it) are stupid Eurovision junkies, who can’t recognize good music even if it hits them in the face… :/ Well, I know that the Wagners are intelligent people, so they wouldn’t resort to thinking with such gross generalizations and stereotypes. 😐

[Richard McGlenn]

Time to put this puppy (topic) to bed. All that needs to be said I think has been said. Next question.

[Jung Roe]

By panel I meant whoever does the selecting of their song.

Well Christomir, “..if they decide to” they, MLT, will know who to call for advice about ESC.  🙂  As I said earlier to our good friend Michael Triba, we are all aligned on wanting to see MLT become “insanely” successful… even though we may have differing creative ideas on how they get there.  🙂   As the wise Richard McGlenn suggests maybe it’s time put this puppy to bed, and this old puppy is going to bed now too.

The best part through all this was to see Ms Leeesa’s insightful and thougthtful responses here about ESC.  Thank you.   MLT have certainly done their research about ESC.  Impressive as always.

[Howard]

I did read your posts in full and do understand that your proposal has merit, but probably only in a perfect world. I’m fairly certain they wouldn’t get a submission accepted by the two countries they are currently eligible for and don’t know if it’s possible for them to enter via a foreign country. If so, I’d recommend they try Australia as they did spend some time here.

However, I do believe your proposal is a “dream scenario” only and not worth the bother of them trying as I don’t think they’d really like to be involved anyway and don’t really seem to crave that kind of exposure. Maybe it would be more suitable for an up and coming song writer looking for a start in the music business. That’s not MLT!

As for your use of Miss Lisa, she probably realises you are teasing her, and by the proper pronunciation of Lisa, do you mean ‘Leesa’?

[Christomir Rackov]

My “dream scenario” would be exactly 0 (zero) bother of them trying, as it also includes the premise that applying would take no time, effort or money (I am repeating this for the umpteenth, and hopefully last time) – the idea is that they would be able to apply by simply submitting their song for consideration, and it either gets picked or not. If the system for selection requires anything more, then they are out, and it is no longer the “dream scenario”.

And yes, I can guarantee to you that there ARE indeed such countries (or certain years in some countries) – where songs that are already recorded, get submitted, and considered.

And yes, in theory it IS absolutely possible for them (or any other artist and songwriter) to enter via ANY of the 40+ foreign countries – the rules of the ESC allow that, no problem!

It doesn’t HAVE to be the UK, or Asutria, or even Australia, at all.

[Michael Rife]

Wow!!  What an interesting dialogue!!  I’ve learned so much with the back and forth.  I kept wondering “What is Itso??”  I even googled it for internet slang, etc., and could not find it!!

Also, I based my earlier comments about the ESC based on AGT and American Idol contests here in the states.  The “winners” and runner-ups had to sign a contract with Clive Davis and others like him and pretty much lose artistic control in their LPs. When Kelly Clarkson tried to break away, it was a major headache for her.  But, she persisted and is still pretty popular (though not my style of music).  To me MLT is going about it in the right way…..try to work outside of the established music industry as much as possible.  Mike.

[Christomir Rackov]

Hello, Mike R. 🙂 I hope that at least now I have been able to let you know that the Eurovision Song Contest is nothing like those music reality TV shows you were thinking about – AGT, Idol and X-factor, and it has a completely different concept, and a completely different way of handling the songs, the artists, and the winners 😉

Basically, those TV shows are for singers doing covers, while the ESC is a Europe-wide festival for new original songs, representing entire countries, which happens to be spiced up with that competitive element (which all of us here seem to unanimously hate, and rightly so…LOL), to make it more interesting for the more naive and immature among the viewers.

I also hope that, unlike some others in this conversation, I have managed to convince you that, despite the many negative things about it (many of which we discussed here at length), it also has *some* positive sides, which could allow a unique opportunity to a brilliant team of musicians and songwriters like MLT (rather than the aspiring teenagers with little to no songwriting talent that usually compete in those aforementioned TV shows) to try and make their music much more famous, as it deserves to be, by showing it to millions of viewers.

And yes, lest the others here decide to point it out yet again, I do admit that that unique opportunity is entirely dependent on a lot of luck for it to happen, and the chances are very slim. But at least they are more than 0%. But they would indeed be exactly 0%, if Team MLT decided to never do anything about it, in any of the European countries – that’s for sure.

Anyways, I am sure we will all agree to two things – that MLT’s brilliant original music deserves to be heard by much more people than have heard it so far. And that, if some day one of their great new songs was performed by them at the Grand Final of the ESC (let’s say – via some magic), it would strikingly stand out among all of the other songs on that stage 😉

[Michael Rife]

Hi Christomir;

The major point I was trying to make was that one similarity in those shows on both sides of the pond is that there is a loss of artistic control and that is something I would not like to see for MLT.  I think their plan (what little I know of it through observation) is a good way to go.  It sounds like ESC and AGT or AI have the one similarity of the artists would be restricted in what they can do.  And, to me the MLT plan as it is right now seems to be working.

Best to you;

Mike

 

[Christomir Rackov]

Mike R., please read my other posts, and you will see that what you just said is completely wrong – no, in the ESC there is no loss of artistic control, and the artists are not restricted in what they can do with their own song! Because it is THEIR own song, and once the respective TV station has chosen THAT song to represent their country, there is no loss of artistic control that can occur after that – the song is already written, recorded, and selected to represent that country. So it can’t be changed.

Now, judging by what Lisa said about Rudi’s inside information about past Austrian entries for the ESC, apparently there are awful things going on there in the selection process every year, and artists/ songwriters, who hope for their song to be selected, are indeed pressured into writing songs in a certain “format” (style, genre, etc.), and present them in a certain way; and maybe they are blackmailed into signing brutal contracts about their song (probably even before it is written at all), if they want to it have a chance to be selected. 🙁 But that is just Austria. As I already explained, it is NOT like that in every other country, and it is not SUPPOSED be like that!

And, anyway, the disgusting ways in which Austria handles its national selections has nothing to do with what I was talking about in this thread, at all! The entire scenario, under which I ardently recommend that MLT should try to go to the ESC and bring their great music (in particular – one of their great songs) to the ears of millions of new listeners, is based on the premise that some country’s national TV (obviously – not Austria’s ORF; yuck) would somehow select one of their great songs, which would have already been written and recorded, though not yet released, to represent that country at the ESC. Please, Mike, understand, that all I have been arguing here in all of my replies to Howard, Jung, and Lisa, is based entirely on that premise.

So no, sorry, but what you just said, makes no sense – after a song is selected to represent a country, from that point on there is no way for the songwriters and/or performers of that song to lose any creative control over it; the song has already been selected for what it is, so apparently, someone in charge of the selections in that country liked it the way it is, to choose it in the first place. Why try to change it then?

So no, the one “similarity”, which you claim there is between the ESC and those TV shows you were talking about, does not exist (at least – not for most countries sending songs to the ESC)… On the contrary – it is exactly what makes it very different from those shows, and it is exactly what could give the MLT an unique opportunity to share their music with millions more people, without having to compromise any of their principles, or artistic freedom! And that is exactly why I so passionately defend here in this thread my suggestion that they should at least try it one day, despite how slim the chances might be of one of their (already written and recorded) songs getting selected like that, by some participating country… to the point that Howard mistook that passion for me being a big fan of the ESC in general…LOL No, I am not a big fan of ESC (at least not of most songs on it) – I am just passionate about MLT’s music, and about how great it would sound performed by them on the big stage of the Grand Final of the ESC, in contrast with some stupid stereotypical songs before and/or  after it (sent by countries like Austria)… and how that performance would bring the song, and the existence of a genius songwriting duo named “MonaLisa Twins”, to the attention of millions of people, who would never even hear of them otherwise – that is a dream of mine! Because, unlike Howard (though hopefully – not MLT themselves), I don’t want us to selfishly keep MLT’s music to just us, the several thousand MLT fans – I want the entire world to hear it and enjoy it ^_^

[Christomir Rackov]

And yes, LOL, “Itso” is simply the traditional (and only one that I know of) short form for the Bulgarian names Christo and Christomir (also spelt “Hristo” and “Hristomir”).

It works as a short form (hypocorism) for either one of those two full names 🙂

[Howard]

Well Jung, as for “this old puppy is going to bed now too”, maybe you, but bed is still a long way off for this old puppy!.

And Itso, as for “I am repeating this for the umpteenth, and hopefully last time”, I get what you are saying but my point is it doesn’t matter if there wasn’t any cost in terms of time or money for MLT and they got a song of their choice accepted, they still wouldn’t want to be a part of the whole schmozzle!

The only way you could get MLT, or anyone like them to be part of a ESC type contest is to create your own and then have ownership of the criteria for submission, participation and voting. Good luck with that and competing with the ESC monster!

As for the business getting too big for them to handle, I had considered the possibility of them outsourcing some work like distribution and promotion. However, as they are so focused on quality customer service and presentation, as attested to in the wonderfully packaged products (with that extra personal touch) we receive, I’m not sure just how comfortable they would be with external assistance. The business would have to be substantially larger to make it worthwhile.

I’m currently watching “Eurovision – Australia Decides” and the contestants include Tania Dako (from Sweden) and Australia’s own Kate Miller-Heidke who performed an outrageous presentation that is definitely ESC material. Dami Im who was Australia’s first entrant in 2016 where she finished second, is providing the break entertainment.

The Jury votes have just been announced and it’s Kate’s ‘Zero Gravity’ with 48 points first. The public vote is now in and it’s also Kate Miller-Heidke first, so she is Australia’s 2019 entrant. You heard it first here in the MLTClub!

[Jacki Hopper]

Canada has had Canadian Idol , now The Launch  …I’m not a fan  much of any of these shows….I’d rather watch someone perform live for their OWN MERIT  whether they want to go on an d be famous or just continue to perform at the level of just performing, not out to be famous….I  prefer the ORGANICS of music…Raw and no preservitives…100% natural….MLT in today’s Music Landscape ..is refreshing and necessary…I’m not a fan of hardly any of the music out their today , regardless of their genre  whether a mixture of sorts or mainstream…. It has to move me lyrically and muscicwise for me to like/love it… That is my final 2 cents worth for this particular topic…..

[Howard]

This is what it takes to win a Eurovision entry from Australia folks!

SBS announced a new format to select Australia’s representing artist and song for the Eurovision Song Contest.  For the 2019 competition, SBS and Tourism and Events Queensland launched Eurovision – Australia Decides – a live contest open to aspiring songwriters where a jury and the general public will vote for their favourite performer. Songwriters across Australia submitted an original composition as part of the selection process via sbs.com.au/eurovision

Following is a synopsis of media reporting:

“Favourite Kate Miller-Heidke and her outstanding song ‘Zero Gravity’ have claimed the honour of representing Australia at this year’s Eurovision Song Contest in Israel in May. A Eurovision fan since childhood, Kate wrote the song specifically for the competition. She sang the stunningly staged number while wearing a seven-tiered, eye-popping skirt while a dancer in black swayed and swirled on a high pole. Pure Eurovision!

But the real impact of this year’s live show is bigger in some respects than Eurovision itself by showcasing Australia’s song-writing talent – 10 amazing songs from 10 amazing performers. Ironically, many were discovered on shows like XFactor, where they were shoehorned into singing covers.”

[Christomir Rackov]

LOL @ this – “She sang the stunningly staged number while wearing a seven-tiered, eye-popping skirt while a dancer in black swayed and swirled on a high pole. Pure Eurovision!”

Yuck! >_<

I don’t know whether to laugh or to cry at this absurdity! I think we all agree it’s a disgrace.

And yeah, we already established, and all of us agreed in this thread, that this DOES happen quite often in the national selections of some of the countries, and many ridiculously stupid songs and performers like this do get sent to “grace” the big stage of the ESC every year. 🙁

But what most of you guys in this thread refuse to understand and acknowledge, despite how I assured you in it 100 times, is that not ALL of the countries do it like that, and not ALL of the songs at the ESC are like that! No, no, no! They are not. There is real music too!

But OK, let’s just assume that I am a liar, and I have been telling you that some diversity does exist in the music at that big festival – maybe because I am somehow biased? – while the truth is that ALL of the songs at each year’s edition of the ESC are the same stupid ones, like this, and ALL of the artists presenting them are robots, doing exactly the same thing… :/

Seriously?

Can’t you see that this only strengthens my case, of what I dream about for MLT? Because THIS is exactly why I wish so much that MLT could one day “trick” the national TV station  of some country into selecting a song, recorded by them, and sending it to the ESC! (And no, they shouldn’t really have to *trick* them, because, considering how great MLT’s music is, and despite it being “dated”, surely there’s a person with power and influence somewhere in Europe – though, apparently, not in Austria, or in your lovely non-European country – who is not a complete brainwashed idiot and can recognize actual genuine good music!)  Because if that happens, and their song gets selected and they go to the ESC, they would be very likely to follow and/or precede on the big stage of the Grand Final exactly THIS kind of a ridiculous “song” with a stupid circus act! Because, while not all of them are like this, they are indeed a majority – I never denied that fact. 😉 And by being heard exactly next to a monstrosity like this, MLT’s brilliant and genuine music, presented in a serious, classy way, with no stage antics and stupidities, would be even more striking in comparison, and would shine even more with its light of true talent and creativity, as a opposed to THIS absurdity.

And that very contrast would make it even more appealing to that portion of ESC viewers, like me, who care about the actual music, and have enough brains in their heads to not pay attention to the circus acts, and don’t enjoy the tereotypical “ESC style” songs. And, even if those viewers are a small portion of them, there are still million(s) of them, many of whom would love MLT’s song for what it is, and many of those, who loved it, will become fans!

Or do you also assume that ALL the millions of ESC viewers are brainwashed zombies and idiots, who fall for stupidities like THIS song and its absurd presentation, and who only care about the silly competition and the voting? Or do you even suspect that I am one of those idiots, and I’m trying to trick you into liking THIS, and MLT into becoming like THIS? :/

Come on, Howard, give me a bit more credit than that. 🙂 And give at least a million or so, out of the tens of millions of ESC viewers around the world, credit for not being such idiots.

Have a nice day! Athough I am sure you will want to have the last word again… Mike Triba was right – you are just like that, and you can’t help it. 🙁 Apparently, I am too. Doh.

But, before you do it (have the last word), please try to, at last, get into the essence of what I have written and understand not only what I say, but also WHY I say it – what my passion is.

Sorry, Howard, I seriously should stop wasting hours and days of my life and my sleep, for trying to explain things to people, who refuse to listen and understand what I am saying. 🙁

I’m finally bowing out of this ridiculous thread. (And I wish it were on a more positive note)

[Jung Roe]

On a light note, let’s agree to disagree. 🙂

[Jung Roe]

No

[Howard]

Okay with me, as long as I can be Mozart!

[Jung Roe]

????????

[Howard]

“But what most of you guys in this thread refuse to understand and acknowledge, despite how I assured you in it 100 times, is that not ALL of the countries do it like that, and not ALL of the songs at the ESC are like that! No, no, no! They are not. There is real music too!”

I think you are reading far too much into my posts Itso and are way too sensitive. I accept that as you state, not all countries have the same ESC participation rules and that not all songs are the same formula. I was merely informing club members of the latest Australian rules as I had previously mentioned them as an example of a country MLT could consider. Believe me! I understand and acknowledge what you are saying. Our only real point of difference is that some of us (including Lisa), believe that even if they were able to get a song of their own included without any limitations on their artistic integrity or copyright ownership etcetera, they would still not want to be a part of the ESC in the same way that a Beatles or Bob Dylan would not want to be a part of such an event.

“I seriously should stop wasting hours and days of my life and my sleep, for trying to explain things to people, who refuse to listen and understand what I am saying.” This is most unfortunate Itso as in fact we have always been listening to and understanding what you are saying. Therefore your repititions have been wasted. The only unresolved issue is the one I stated in my previous paragraph and on that one we’ll just have to agree to disagree on. Or as Jung so cleverly puts it, you can be Bach and I’ll be Beethoven!

“Mike Triba was right”! Yes he was. In the same way that you and he are ABBA and I am the Rolling Stones. I can accept that but unfortunately Mike has problems with anyone who doesn’t share his passions. Consequently he has issues with MLTs ‘alleged’ views of ABBA. This is unfortunate as I can accept that ABBA were formidable song writers and performers without having to be a fan. Just the same as I can accept that you are a fan of ESC but you (and maybe Mike) seem to have trouble accepting that I’m not.

We are never going to be able to convince some people to be fans of something just because we are. So regarding the ESC, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Now I’m sure a Mozart could come up with an appropriate tune to finish on a positive note, but unfortunately a Mozart I am not!
All the best. I do appreciate your contributions and respect your formidable European knowledge, even though sometimes we may disagree. “That’s Life”. Enjoy it while you can!