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Which is better, the Rolling Stones or the Beatles, and why?
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..you are in the right club to think the Beatles are in a league of their own. Members of other clubs may think otherwise of course.
…We need to establish criteria to determine how we can compare groups rather than just simply popularity or personal likes.
Howard, the massive popularity of Beatles music in every corner of the world and across many generations that far exceed any rock/pop band in history I think is a criteria that can’t be ignored. You can dissect the Beatles and compare certain songs or albums to the Stones, or Dylan, or Led Zeppelin or etc…and depending on the criteria, a case might be made against the Beatles. I think the Beach Boys wrote better surfing songs than the Beatles. Better car songs, Better fun in the sun songs etc, etc. Dylan did better folk songs, Rolling Stones did better R and B, The Supremes did better Motown etc…. but none of them could match the versatility and universal appeal of the Beatles output as a whole. That’s what makes the Beatles #1 and their music recognized and loved by more people across more nationalities and generations than any other band in the world. That’s an important criteria I think. All the other bands are niche compared to the Beatles.
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Hi Jung. Please don’t stress too much. You don’t need to get your head around my particular musical preferences. When you were a teenager, I guess you were listening mainly to the Beach Boys and the Beatles. For me, it was the Rolling Stones, the Kinks, the Animals, the Who and Manfred Mann. Then what I consider to be lesser groups like the Troggs and the Dave Clarke Five. It wasn’t until all the hysteria had died down that I started appreciating the Beatles more. As the Seventies progressed, I also started listening more to the back catalogues of groups like The Hollies, The Byrds, The Loving Spoonful and many, many more groups. This was basically because I had been Rolling Stoned out! We were so fortunate in the Seventies to have so many groups and solo acts and so much great music being produced.
However, like everyone else I know, I kept coming back to the music of my youth, and for me, that was mainly, but not only the Rolling Stones. Of course, I also had some great Stones 70s albums to appreciate. In particular, Their albums (with guitarist Mick Taylor), “Sticky Fingers”, “Exile On Main Street” and “Goats Head Soup”!
“I think your assertion here Howard is inaccurate and overstates Tony Asher’s involvement in the album.”
I am well aware of Brian’s and Tony’s relative contributions to the “Pet Sounds” album Jung. My claim is that it wasn’t really a Beach Boys recording. It would be fairer to call it a Brian Wilson’s Beach Boys album, as it would have been for most of their albums. The Beach Boys had the luxury of Brian retiring from touring for eighteen months to write and record. He took the opportunity to do what he had always wanted to do and chose a collaborator from outside the Beach Boys. He also chose professional musicians for the recording. He had argued with earlier albums that studio musicians were more efficient, got the job done quicker, and cost much less than using his own band. The rest of the Beach Boys merely added their vocals to the finished product. They mostly didn’t even like the album, Dennis Wilson and Mike Love in particular.
By the way, I have never questioned the quality of Brian Wilson’s “Pet Sounds” album. My argument is that when you are listening to any Beatles or Stones albums of the time, you basically know who you are listening to. With the Beach Boys, apart from the vocals, no one really knows.
More on this subject later. There is too much for one post.
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I’m kind of amused by the ongoing argumentive debates going on here between Tomas/Jung/Howard…. It’s entertaining as long as it doesn’t get out of hand and causes harm…. It’s not worth to get to an argumentative point where one gets so riled up in anger, etc…
Though, I had said I’d not likely participate much in this particular thread, I will say this of it though, from my own perspective, and a reminder it is of my own opinion only and nothing more:
I believe we all are entitled to our own (faves) /preferences to musical ear tastes pre-MLT discovery times-eras (Lol), and regardless of who thinks which groups, sounds, and all that stuff is supposedly better than the others, etc., Music is powerful and if it’s the whole pkg of how it sounds – (instrumentation, arrangements, vocals, lyrics, etc) that moves you, that’s fine, if it is only certain specifics in the whole music pkg that moves you, that is also fine.
Music is for enjoyment or to be of therapeutic purposes, or whatever you wish it to be and what it does for you.
MLT has the rarity distinction gift much reminiscent of the Beatles effect, etc and Harmonies factor essences like that of the Everly Brothers, Beach Boys, the zing and zest appeal perhaps of Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, etc.
From hearing/listening to MLT’s music I can sincerely pickup up on infinite essences from all music genres that makeup for their sound, influences while at sametime maintaining their own creative integrity essences that sets them apart in a good way from others of today’s music landscape, yet echoing/intertwining hints of yesteryear into their stuff…
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Hi Jacki. Well stated, and I like what you said about MLT with the Beatles effect…harmonies of the Everly Brothers and Beach Boys, and Zing and Zest of Led Zeppelin and the Stones.
Riled up, nah! I think we all like to express our passionate opinions here, but then we always agree to disagree with respect and move on. One thing though is for sure, we all love MLT and they are #1 in our hearts!
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I’m kind of amused by the ongoing argumentive debates going on here between Tomas/Jung/Howard…. It’s entertaining as long as it doesn’t get out of hand and causes harm…. It’s not worth to get to an argumentative point where one gets so riled up in anger, etc…
Thanks Jacki, I was wondering how it may look from the outside, personally nothing on these subjects could upset me. I’m here because it lifts my spirits and talking about this for me is a pleasure, even if I’m disagreeing with what is being said. I think though Howard may come across sometimes as a prickly pear, he has a big heart. He couldn’t like the MonaLisa Twins otherwise, right?
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I think you are correct Tomas. However, I don’t mean to be that prickly but can understand that I may sometimes come across that way. Like everybody else here, I love the MonaLisa Twins, their music, their inspirations, and their vision. I’m also aware that we all have our personal preferences and individual passions too. For some of us, it veers towards the more bubblegum pop of the sixties while others it is the more hard rock sound of the sixties. The yin and yang, the light and dark, the sweet and sour, the Epstein and Oldham, the Beatles and the Stones.
There is currently thought that “Practically all the songs on the radio now are bubblegum pop. Just because they “technically” call a song “hip hop” or “rock” or “R&B” doesn’t make it that. I think it should be acknowledged that bubblegum is definitely back now, not just ‘trying to come back’”
I value the beautiful diversity and differences that manage to emerge from what at times seems like a totally crazy world and appreciate that the Wagner family have created this wonderful Club that allows us to come together in a comfortable, respectful way to share our various passions.
One of my passions is how and why people create music and what internal, external and establishment forces impact on the final product. In this regard we are fortunate that Papa Rudi has managed to create the perfect environment for his adorable twin daughters to apply their creative abilities in such a perfect, unadulterated way, to produce the gems we constantly receive from them. My hat goes off to him! Along with the amazing ‘mumager’ Michaela, they are the perfect team and what I consider to be the perfect role models for what a healthy family can be. More power to the MLT I say!
For me, my views and preferences are of no more importance or value than anyone else here. Sometimes I do like to play the Devil’s advocate. After all, who is the ‘evil’ twin, Mona or Lisa!
Thank you for understanding and please everyone, don’t be offended by my sometimes very passionate music analysis. In the end, I think we all appreciate the same thing, the final product, while people like me sometimes like to analyse how that product got there!
I will continue to consider The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Beach Boys in the same way and everyone, of course, is free to engage or ignore. As they say, You can be Beethoven, I’ll be Mozart and Schwartznegger will be Bach!
By the way Tomas, I was serious about that yearly single challenge between the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, after all, it could be interesting to see what Beatles fans and Rolling Stones fans were listening to each year of the sixties, commencing in 1964 and ending in 1970!
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Did John Lennon and Paul McCartney meet after the breakup of The Beatles?
Yes, they did. And there’s a good story about that, too.
On April 24, 1976, John Lennon and Paul McCartney were in New York at Lennon’s apartment and they were just bumming around watching Saturday Night Live on TV. Lorne Michaels came on the screen and said he would offer the Beatles $3,000 to reunite on SNL at some point and just play three songs.
Unbeknownst to Michaels, Lennon and McCartney were watching the show. As they sat there watching TV, Lennon and McCartney briefly considered grabbing their equipment and heading to the SNL studio nearby and crashing the set with an impromptu show. But they abandoned the idea almost as soon as they had thought of it.
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Howard, I am very glad you are here as either Mozart or Bach, and I am Beethoven! 🙂 It’s no fun if we are both Beethoven or Bach or Mozart.
I have my hunch who may be the more evil twin, but I’m not telling.
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Following are some comments from Quora relating mainly to whether John Lennon was underrated as a rhythm guitarist and whether he was better than Keith Richards.
Tara M Taylor Jul 17, 2017
Keith Richards is a consummate guitar player. As someone who’s studied guitar for a good portion of her 63 years, Richards’ playing still amazes me. His grasp of rhythm blues guitar is excellent and his timing superb. He’s the backbone of most Rolling Stones songs. I don’t know if you’re familiar with open G tuning, but Richards uses it a lot and on staples like Brown Sugar, Honky Tonk Women, etc. Open tuning tends to be easier to play than standard tuning since playing all open strings produces a chord (G in the case of open G). Richards takes simple open G chords and crafts them into instantly recognizable Stones’ hits. This is no fluke, rather based on a solid understanding of blues chord progressions, what sounds good and will “hook” the listener. Though they have distinctly different styles, I’d put Lennon on equal par with Richards.Jeff Johnston Nov 21, 2018
John Lennon’s rhythm guitar playing was underrated for certain. And also on many of the covers, where his rhythm guitar drives the whole band. Notably the Larry Williams and Carl Perkins numbers.
As far as the Stones, early on Jones and Richards functioned much like John and George, trading off lead and rhythm lead. But generally in both bands, John and Brian Jones would play the opening riff (I Feel Fine, The Last Time) while Keith and George would play lead. There are notable exceptions, of course: Day Tripper, Satisfaction among them.
Forrest Evans
Sep 9, 2018
Many different styles and there is a synergy in the Rolling Stones that works. They are doing their thing, the Beatles did their thing, yes there are better players technically but until you write songs as good as the Stones wrote, and play together as well as they play, then don’t pretend to sit on your couch and be an expert. Relax, you can listen to someone else if you want.Joe Becker, works at NoWayOut Films
They were both creative and both developed styles of their own.
John played complex chords and did some really awesome things with triplets and whatnot. It is a very unique style and he was very good. He liked to play sloppy and rough, but not always. He liked the garage band sound. His rhythm always fit the song, and his timing was good.Keith does not just play rhythm. He plays a mix of rhythm and lead. He develops very memorable hooks. He’s very unique and his playing is riveting, mesmerizing at times. infectious.
John Lennon’s playing was made to blend with the song, while Keith’s is the song.
Pick up a guitar and try to play their stuff. If you play the chords the way John played them, it can get quite tricky. Complex chords, tricky rhythms, and they always fit the song. Then try doing what Keith does. Both were very good, and both were innovative. But Keith’s stands out a lot more because again, John Lennon’s playing was made to blend with the song, while Keith’s is the song.
Carl Garthwaite, Guitarist since 1970, Electronic Technician since 1976.
Speaking strictly about playing, perhaps John Lennon knew a few more “jazz” and orchestral chords, as well as intricate melodic structures with unusual key changes, but as others have mentioned, any decent guitarist could have played his parts, and no one would have been the wiser. I’d consider him more of a writer and singer than a guitarist.
On the other hand, Keith Richards’ playing is always 100% recognizable as his alone. Keith’s playing invariably drives the Stones’ sound. Without Keith, the Stones would just be another average band with a great singer. Also, it’s not at all accurate to consider Keith solely a “rhythm guitarist”. He’s a Guitarist! A full range guitarist who inventively and intuitively mixes rhythms with riffs and bits of lead playing. Sure he’s not a virtuoso lead playing shredder, but if you had a band with only one guitarist, Keith’s playing would always keep your interest and fill all the musical niches required to be great.Dave Anthony
Dave Anthony, worked at Bon Appetite Answered Jul 12, 2017.
Originally Answered: Why isn’t John Lennon more widely known for his guitar playing? He was a much better rhythm player than Keith Richards. There’s an old story about Keith Richards I really like. A musician was sitting in with the stones once, the band started playing and the guy said the groove feel kind of funny so when they stopped he said something like “hey, you know doesn’t the guitar follow the bass and the bass follow the drums?” Which was met by “not in this band, everyone just follows Keef.” I think that might be why Mr. Richards is so known for his guitar playing. I think of Lennon more as a great songwriter than a great guitarist, as far as guitar playing is concerned during that era, Jimi Hendrix simply eclipses everyone else. -
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Howard, I agree with your assessment:
One of my passions is how and why people create music and what internal, external and establishment forces impact on the final product. In this regard we are fortunate that Papa Rudi has managed to create the perfect environment for his adorable twin daughters to apply their creative abilities in such a perfect, unadulterated way, to produce the gems we constantly receive from them. My hat goes off to him! Along with the amazing ‘mumager’ Michaela, they are the perfect team and what I consider to be the perfect role models for what a healthy family can be. More power to the MLT I say!
The whole family works very hard and with very high standards. Something that is very rare indeed. The music industry is not set up to foster that, quite the contrary, so seeing them succeed is doubly wonderful to me.
Now as to the Stones vs. Beatles, I can’t see any criteria other than personal preference being of any value, and I think we know how that will turn out. As for the the riffs video, nice guy, but the Twins could give him a few lessons on how to play the guitar, let alone Beatles songs. He was much more at home with the Stones, I think.
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19th Nervous Breakdown – The Rolling Stones, live.
This was one of three songs The Stones performed on their Ed Sullivan Show appearance on February 13, 1966, the first time they were broadcast in color on US television.
Unbelievably, the three weeks “19th Nervous Breakdown” was at #2; the #1 record for all three of those weeks was “The Ballad of the Green Berets” by S/Sgt. Barry Sadler.
“Jagger came up with the title first and then wrote the lyrics around it. The opening guitar figure is played by Keith Richards while in the verses Brian Jones plays a bass-note figure that derives from “Diddley Daddy” by Bo Diddley, a major influence on the Rolling Stones’ style. Here the riff is extended into a long blues chord progression behind verbose lyrics similar to those of their previous UK single, “Get Off of My Cloud”, and the verse alternates with a bridge theme. The track is also known for Bill Wyman’s so-called “dive-bombing” bass line at the end. At almost four minutes’ duration, it is long by the standards of the time.”
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Please ignore the fact that this is from a sequel series to The Flintstones, and just try to tell me that this doesn’t sound like something Brian Wilson might have come up with during his creative peak:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqbsJECAz0E
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David, this does sound like something from Brian Wison for sure. Has that Beach Boys sound. It is unfortunate the substance abuse snubbed out all the potential that Brian could have fulfilled. In 1972 the band retreated to Holland for a creative album production effort with Brian Wilson . With encouragement from Van Dyke Parks, Brian wrote this song, although it didn’t become a chart topping hit, this was probably one of his last critically acclaimed songs he produced while he still had a little glimmer of his genius. Van Dyke Park said it was hard to keep Brian focused long enough even to finish the song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxFFyiBbUoM
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(Oops, I meant to post under the Beatles vs. Beach Boys topic, not Beatles vs. Stones. Good thing we’re all voracious readers.)
I had heard OF that song, Jung, but I had never heard it. Very interesting! It seems to lean a little toward R&B or Motown.
What happened to Brian was very sad, but I thought he fully rebounded (musically at least) with his 1988 solo album.
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What will Paul McCartney be remembered for?
John Lennon died in 1980
George Harrison died in 2001
Both are best known as one fourth of the Beatles, although they made highly regarded albums as solo artists..
Ringo Starr’s main claim to fame is also as a Beatle. He still records albums and tours with his All Starr Band.
Paul McCartney will celebrate his 50th year as a former Beatle. He gained fame again as the leader of Wings, the 70’s pop group that had many #1 albums and singles, and toured to greater crowds of fans than the Beatles did. This year he had the #1 song on the Billboard Top 100 list of albums!
He is the most prolific, creative, richest and famous musician in the world!
And he will be forever remembered as a Beatle first and foremost.

(But the rest of his eventual obituary will be filled with a long lifetime of great successes both professional and personal! Hopefully it will be a long time until we have to read it!)
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“Harrison told Guitar Player in 1987 that he liked McCartney’s solo on ‘Taxman’.”
In a 1979 Rolling Stone interview, he had this to say:
Q. It seems as if Paul was the Beatle with whom you were least compatible musically – you’ve gone on record as saying you wouldn’t play with him again.
A. Yeah, well now we don’t have any problems whatsoever as far as being people is concerned, and it’s quite nice to see him. But I don’t know about being in a band with him, how that would work out. It’s like, we all have our own tunes to do. And my problem was that it would always be very difficult to get in on the act, because Paul was very pushy in that respect. When he succumbed to playing on one of your tunes, he’d always do good. But you’d have to do fifty-nine of Paul’s songs before he’d even listen to one of yours. So, in that respect, it would be very difficult to ever play with him. But, you know, we’re cool as far as being pals goes.
In fact, McCartney didn’t play all that many lead guitar parts on Beatles albums. It’s just that the ones he did play (‘Taxman’, ‘Good Morning Good Morning’, ‘Back in the USSR’) tend to be rather memorable.“
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