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Which is better, the Rolling Stones or the Beatles, and why?
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Now this one just may be for dedicated Rolling Stones fans only!
We have Crimson and Clover, Beethoven and Mozart, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones and Paul McCartney and Keith Richards!
KEITH!
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Howard, that’s quite an insightful interview with Keith Richards. Nice to see the person behind the image. He seems like a really personable guy. Glad he and Mick Jagger still work together as brothers. On that 19th Nervous Breakdown video, young Richards looked so different from now, a baby Keith. It looks like Keith is a real survivor, fortunately from all the substance abuse over the years and managed to keep himself mentally healthy to be able to still create the music and perform like he does.
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Any mention of Keith Richards always makes me think of this scene from the 1987 Frankie and Annette reunion movie “Back to the Beach”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxpVOQKAs4g
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That’s hilarious David! I remember those long round Alka Seltzer bottles.
Although Brian Wilson returned to song writing, it was never as inspired as his 62-67 period. Their biggest hit in 1988, Kokomo, that went to #1 in the US charts was written by Mike Love and interestingly Scott McKenzie of San Francisco fame!
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I believe John Phillips of the Mamas & Papas also had a hand in writing “Kokomo”. Quite a memorable last hurrah for some of the great 60’s vocalists!
Phillips also wrote “San Francisco” for McKenzie, who had been in a folk group with him in the early 60’s.
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Speaking of longevity and musical revolutions, here’s a good in depth analysis about The Beatles’ music in context with the concurrent “classical” music evolution. It’s the BBC so it will go at a slow pace and get a bit technical in the music department, but I feel it must if it’s going to make it’s point, which is that the Beatles changed not only popular music, but modern classical music as well. It’s very interesting IMHO.
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Great doco Tomás and very interesting IMHO too. Not too slow for me. I appreciated the presenters understated style and thoroughness. An excellent explanation of the Beatles influence and rapid musical progression in just four short years. I am so lucky to have been a teenager during this time. My first ever album purchase was “Sgt Peppers”.
Thanks for sharing the video.
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For me personally, though I do like music by both, I ‘m leaning towards Beatles direction for various reasons whereas the Stones.. I’ m not sure if it’s their appeal, their style of music or what exactly but it clearly never has had the immediate impact as I do with The Beatles…. Having 2 older brothers with whom both have different music tastes, but one brother enjoys Stones/Beatles and he and I are similar in our music tastes… Anyways, a few of the reasons for my leaning towards Beatles are of course their appeal… Being female, I dug their looks better?… Musically, their lyrics, instrumentation, appeal for me caught my attention moreso, kind of more relatable for me to understand/grasp/relate to…. I can’t fully equate to explaining the exact why they do in depth but to me, if I love/like something from getgo and it emotionally moves me, I can dance and sing along to it, whatever concept it has conveyed for me to pay attention to, it’s worth it and resonates a lifetime for me. IMHO of course!
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Tomas, where do you find these awesome videos! I watched the whole thing and I love it! This and that other one about Beethoven. The Classical music of the late 19th and 20th century was lost on me too as it became too abstract. I really appreciated the parallels this video draws between classical music of the Bach/Mozart/Beethoven period and the Beatles and what they did to restore the western structured music, and change the direction of all music forever after them. In My Life, and Eleanor Rigby have so much classical music influence in it. Beatles are Bach/Mozart/Beethoven/Schubert 2.0! Thanks for sharing this video!
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I highly recommend watching the video Tomas posted here. It is brilliant. It’s interesting the parallel that exists between Classical music and the plight of modern pop/rock music today. The modern avant garde classical music musicians of the early 20th century devolved music into an unstructured abstract garbage, that the Beatles came along and restored, putting back structure and melody. Unfortunately, over the decades since the 60s modern music has declined again to hip hop and the uninspired sorry state of pop music today. Fortunately we have MLT, inspired with great music making talent of the Beatles and other greats from the 60s, to restore and change music forever again like the Beatles did.
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We will always have our differences Jung and I hope we can both feel free to continue to share our individual differences.
However, we do have two things in common. Our passion for both classical and popular music and our passion for all things MLT.
”Fortunately we have MLT, inspired with great music making talent of the Beatles and other greats from the 60s, to restore and change music forever again like the Beatles did.”
This statement is why we are all here, with all our collected music appreciation baggage. Whether or not the MLT achieve such greatness remains to be seen, but we’re all here enjoying the journey with them.
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Absolutely Howard! It’s the differences that give our lives spice and opportunity to expand our minds and learn and grow and our common passion for MLT that bring us all together. It’s a wonderful musical journey we are on with Mona and Lisa. I’m always glad our paths crossed here at the Club. ?
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“I am a numbers guy, and for me proof is in the pudding”
Well this is one area we will always disagree Jung. As I stated in your “Great Rivalry” Topic, “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics’?”
However, if you really believe the proof is in the numbers pudding and your main authority is Rolling Stone magazine, what do these numbers prove to you?
Artists with the most albums
11 albums
Bob Dylan (one credited to Bob Dylan and the Band; two in the top 10 including the No. 9 and No. 4 spots)
10 albums
The Beatles (four in the top 10 including the No. 10, No. 5, No. 3, and No. 1 spots)
The Rolling Stones (one in the top 10 at the No. 7 spot)
8 albums
Bruce Springsteen7 albums
The Who
6 albums
David Bowie
Elton John5 albums
Led Zeppelin
Bob Marley and the Wailers
Radiohead
U2
Neil Young (two credited to Neil Young and Crazy Horse)4 albums
James Brown
The Byrds
Elvis Costello (three credited with the Attractions)
Grateful Dead
Pink Floyd
The Police
Prince
Otis Redding
Roxy Music
Sly and the Family Stone
The Smiths
Talking Heads
Stevie Wonder
The Velvet Underground (one album credited with Nico)3 albums
The Band (one credited to Bob Dylan and The Band)
The Beach Boys (one in the top 10 at the No. 2 spot)
Big Star
Black Sabbath
Jackson Browne
Ray Charles
The Clash (one in the top 10 at the No. 8 spot)
George Clinton (two with Funkadelic, one with Parliament)
Cream
Creedence Clearwater Revival (in 2003 edition)
Miles Davis
The Doors
Nick Drake (in 2003 edition)
Eminem (in 2003 edition)
Marvin Gaye (one in the top 10 at the No. 6 spot)
Al Green
The Jimi Hendrix Experience
Michael Jackson
The Kinks
Madonna
Nirvana
Randy Newman
Elvis Presley
Public Enemy (in 2003 edition)
R.E.M.
The Red Hot Chili Peppers (in 2012 edition)
Simon & Garfunkel
Steely Dan
The Stooges
Tom Waits
Muddy Waters
Kanye West (in 2012 edition)
Jay Z-
I presume Howard these are a list of bands with the most albums in the Rolling Stones 500 Greatest Albums of all time list. Statistics and numbers have to be portrayed in proper context, or else you are manipulating it for a desired result. Rolling Stones as I noted previously have the advantage of longevity in context of comparison to the Beatles and Beach Boys. The Beatles were together as a force for about 6 years, as was Brian Wilson. If you take the Stones peak period of 6 years, how would their stats compare. Conversely if the Beatles stayed together for the same length of time as the Stones, ie 5 decades, and Brian Wilson the same, I doubt the Stones would compare as favorably. Also in comparison to Bob Dylan, in fairness to the Beatles, John, Paul and George solo output should be included.
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Context? Well I could write a thesis on this subject. However, the only context here is what you have chosen as your main authority (Rolling Stone magazine), and the numbers and statistics they have crunched.
No manipulation on my part Jung. That is all your doing.
The Rolling Stones started producing albums and writing much later than the Beach Boys and their peak period of six years was from 1968 to 1973. It is this period that has produced the vast majority of their top albums. Beggars’ Banquet, Let It Bleed, Get Yer Ya Yas Out, Sticky Fingers, Exile On Main St and Goats’ Head Soup.
However, most critics seem to extend this period by a few years, and include albums like “It’s Only Rock and Roll, But I Like It”, “Tattoo You“ and “Some Girls”.
There are more instalments to come. As I said, I could probably write a thesis on popular music if I cared to!
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That wasn’t my doing Howard, it is Google. I just typed “Greatest Albums of all time”, and Google presented Rolling Stones Magazine, 500 Greatest Albums of All Time, followed by Ranker list, followed by one by Pop Vortex. I just used the top 3 ranking list Google presented. Rolling Stones Magazine presented the Stones in the best light with their top album at #7. Ranker listed the Stones best album at #26! And Pop Vortex, had the Stones best entry “Exile On Main St” at #11. What is consistent is Beach Boys best album Pet Sounds comes out on top of the Stones every time! I presume Google search algorithm presents the best or most reliable sources at the top, like Rolling Stone Magazine, and the more fringe stuff further down you scroll.
I suspect if Brian didn’t lose it like he did, he likely would have gone on to complete his “Smile” Album (Good Vibrations was one of the results of his Smile album efforts, just to give an idea of the kind of album it could have been) that was expected to eclipse Sargent Peppers, and then what would the Beatles responded with to top Smile? I guess we will never know.
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But hope is not lost Howard. The Rolling Stones Magazine 500 Greatest Songs of All Time lists the Rolling Stones “I can’t get no satisfaction” at #2, eclipsed by Bob Dylan’s “Like A Rolling Stone” at #1, and John Lennon’s “Imagine” at #3. Beach Boys Good Vibrations come in at #6.
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Take responsibility for your actions Jung. No one forced you to google the subject and no one forced you to publish the results. You stated you were a numbers guy but it’s starting to seem to be the case only when the numbers suit you.
You are also indulging in hypotheticals instead of realities with all your “ifs”. Everyone here would have their own ifs. Be ready, I’m preparing a few ifs of my own which will be delivered in instalments.
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I think Howard my last couple of posts were out of line. I get carried away sometimes. My apologies. You have a lot of knowledge of music and more insight into the intricacies and history of Rock music than me, that I always admire, and I didn’t mean to be disrespectful with the tone of my last couple of posts. You are correct, one can use numbers to argue a case in their favor, and it is only subjective. I didn’t mean to disrespect your passion and admiration for the Stones that we all know is one of the greatest bands of all time. I do enjoy discussing all things music, and all things MLT with you, and hope these last few posts don’t spoil that. Have a good day Howard!
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Everything’s cool with me Jung. Just like Brian Wilson inspired Paul McCartney to greater things, your passion is also inspiring me to review and energise my musical experiences. Some people may think I overanalyse, but that is my passion. Unfortunately I can’t produce music like others here can, but I do get pleasure out of listening to and analysing the world of music and how it is produced.
Here I’d like to bring some context to how albums by the Beatles, Beach Boys and Rolling Stones were produced in the mid sixties.
The Rolling Stones produced their “Out Of Our Heads” album in 1965 during an extensive tour of the US. They popped into a Chicago studio to record it, in between touring commitments, and without a lot of studio time. They also wrote major hit singles, “Satisfaction”, “The Last Time” and “Get Off My Cloud” during this period. They had similar commitments during the recording of “Aftermath” the following year.
They and the Beatles didn’t have the luxury of the Beach Boys who had Brian Wilson resign from touring in December 1964 to focus his efforts on writing and recording. So naturally he had a great advantage over other groups. Not only this, he had a record company prepared to spend whatever it took and give Wilson whatever time and resources he needed.
Freed from the burden of touring, he immediately showcased the advances in his musical development evident within the albums The Beach Boys Today! and Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!), released in the first half of 1965.
I will continue this theme in another post, which will also introduce Brian’s experimenting with psychedelic drugs around this time.
Please don’t take my posts too personally. I am a big fan of Brian Wilson’s too. Not just as a musician, composer and record producer, but also as a decent human being with perhaps a traumatic childhood, who has managed to overcome much in his life to still be with us doing his thing. He is a perfectionist and life can sometimes be much more challenging for people like this.
Fortunately, those other perfectionists we all admire and love in this club, Mona and Lisa, have obviously had a healthy, loving upbringing, and a stable family to keep them both grounded and focused. Maybe back in the sixties Brian could have done with a mumager like Michaela!
Please don’t feel restrained by my particular passion Jung. You are a prolific poster and I value your input. I just don’t know how you find the time when you work full time!
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